OSMT Beta Testing

[Lord_Simeon]

That's OK mate, no problems there.
I wouldn't mind going through the goodie drop again and fine tuning it to loactions ei - group of three Krall and 1 Skarrj = 2 health packs and a Krall Staff.

When i was doing it i just used the search actor tool and flipped between them all, it's only a 5 minute task

[SuperApe]

With the latest version of OSM-Gauntlet, I now see a bug in the toolset, related to the new feature to engage an AIScript for your Pawn along with your cutscene. The first cutscene with an AIScript runs fine, successive ones do not. I did some minor fixes to my working version of the toolset and if I can nail that bug, I'll do a supplemental update.

[SuperApe]

I'm going to release a supplemental update that fixes several bugs with the OSMObjectiveManager in relation to non-linear Objective setups and Objective setups that omit some optional features such as cutscenes, playerscripts and playerstarttags.

[SuperApe]

I am working on Gauntlet and other things today. I only have one new addition to my working version of the toolset, so I'm not sure if I'll be doing a full update today or not.

So far this week:

Decorations added:

- Carcass : Just a mesh with no collision that you can specify an animation sequence and frame to freeze on. Default is human male skeleton mesh, but you could set any animated mesh. There were carcasses in old UT, I think this is close to what it was.

(and the only other thing I might add today is)

DamageType added:

- Poisoning : A DamageType that does normal damage, like melee damage, but also causes the target to become poisoned, by giving it the new Poison Inventory. This would be useful for poison darts, triggered physics volume poison "fog", or custom monster damage.

The way to code this Poisoning DamageType isn't obvious to me yet, I need to find an entry point to add Inventory to the target, but I'll find it.

[SuperApe]

I realized that the larger or more powerful monsters I have in this toolset should do what the Warlord does, which is ignore minor damage. They are still hurt of course, but now creatures like GiantGasbag, GiantManta, Behemoth, SkaarjBerserker and SkaarjLord (which has armor) do not play thier pain animation and sound if the damage is below a certain threshold relative to their default Health and overall strength. This prevents the player from easily killing the larger, more powerful monsters by simply hitting them with a steady stream from the AssaultRifle or Minigun and watching them do the "Chaingun-Cha-Cha", as Doom used to call it. This really makes a difference and it seems like a proper advantage this gives to larger creatures. It will be part of the next update.

EDIT: Now updated in the latest version of the toolset (v0.98b), check out the difference. It's a pretty significant gameplay change.

[SuperApe]

ThingFactory, and it's child actor, CreatureFactory have been sticky things to nail down. I just found a glaring error in the code that would effect setups where you'd want to simply trigger the Factory when you wanted a item/creature. The bug would make the factory just spawn it without waiting for the trigger. It almost is enough to make me want to do a supplemental update, because I know Lord_Simeon and I are both trying to do that.

I'm using this in my map now and trying to get a CreatureFactory to *only* spawn on trigger. But, it was designed to automatically respawn whenever the creature is killed. (It's Event is set to the CreatureFactory's Tag, so the creature triggers the factory all by itself upon death.) This design is described in a few places, like Unreal Creature Care and Feeding Guide, so I put it in the code to automatically set the creature's Event to match the Factory's Tag.

But, I'm wondering if I should allow an option on CreatureFactories, something like, bAutoRespawn (default = true), so that the mapper can turn that off, like I want to in my map now. Maybe I should take a look at the original code for ThingFactory and CreatureFactory.

[SuperApe]

outpt.co.uk brings up another ThingFactory problem I've noticed (but haven't paid attention to yet). If you want to spawn a Pickup, like a HeathPack or a Weapon, it does so, but then respawns it 30 seconds later. It's spawning a Pickup, which is an actor that is meant to be used in DM (or other) maps to give a constant supply of items for the players. For our purposes, we often need to limit and carefully regulate the goodies doled out. So, I'm thinking about adding an ActorLifespan property to ThingFactories. This would allow the mapper to set the lifespan of the Pickup (or not), and let them spawn inventory once, only for a certain amount of time, or continuously like it does now. I will probably put this into the next version release.

[saka]

Hi all,

I'm SaKa and I will assist Sjosz on OSM-Infiltration
Besides making the static meshes for that map I'll also be trying out the tools and give feedback when necessary.

[SuperApe]

Originally Posted by outpt.co.uk

The problem I'm having is with the health pack - seems to respawn automatically, whereas I only want the player to be able to get so much health before continuing the mission, rather than waiting and stocking back up to full.

Yes, I have been having the same problem. I know what you mean. Gauntlet shouldn't allow you to re-pickup healths or weapons (or shields, or quad damages, etc.), like it does now. I think that setting a Lifespan on the pickups has worked in the past. (that's how the ScriptedMonster -> GoodieDrop stuff works: it just spawns it but "dies" soon after, so no respawning can occur) I will do a quick test with a new property on ThingFactory (ItemLifespan) and then maybe do a quick supplemental update so that this is available for ThingFactories. EDIT: Officially fixxored.

Saka: Woohoo! Welcome!

[SuperApe]

Originally Posted by outpt.co.uk

It works great - One thing I'd have wanted for a single player map was health and shield packs that didn't respawn.

Woot!

Originally Posted by outpt.co.uk

Other thoughts at this point; (Bearing in mind I have only read parts of documentation so far)...

- OSMObjectiveManager has an "eye" icon in the editor. This is the same icon as the 3D camera. This confused me a little at first, especially when I were looking at your example map to see how everything fitted together.

Yes, I wanted an icon that represented a major element of the map; one that is fairly uncommon. The Eye was my choice. It seemed appropriate for the all-encompassing work it does. And although that icon is also used for the 3D camera, the camera tends to move around so much (and so easy) that I figured it might not be confusing. It's also double-sized by default. So, I hope it wasn't too confusing. If it is, I can come up with a custom icon like the various NavPoint icons I made for PatrolPoint, HomeBase, etc.

Originally Posted by outpt.co.uk

- The mod seems very easy to use; it feels literally like an advanced set of triggers, with each one triggering the next with only a few options to set. All very logical; once you've set one objective it's easy to emulate onto the next. No complaints here so far.

Double-Woot!

Originally Posted by outpt.co.uk

- Other thoughts:

Would love to have more variations of monster. I understand this would be a lot of additional work though.

Would like to be able to alter the damage of monsters - appears you can only alter melee attaks atm (Looking at SmartBrute and SmartSkaarjScout at least). Setting monster health would also be nice, although it appears you can alter their shield to add this effect.

An OSMMonsterManager actor which over-rides all monster type defaults in the map, such as "set all SmartBrute to have 300 health"

Interesting idea. Like an actor with a dynamic array, where you can select a monster (ScriptedMonster) to override, set it's health, skill, maybe set some other things. Hmm. A couple of the things you mentioned are hidden properties, if not just hard-coded (as they were in UT99 too), but there's no reason they can't be properties, really. Let me think about that. That's a neat idea.

Originally Posted by outpt.co.uk

Map is coming along nice, going to attempt my first complex puzzle over the next few days.

Cool. Let me know if there's anything I can help with. I'm interested to see what you come up with. If you start spending too much time and you're getting frustrated, don't hesitate to bring it up on the OSM Level Design thread and share the development with the group.

[outpt.co.uk]

More wish list:

Weapons: Halfway through my map, I'd like the player to obtain a chaingun to help with a set of difficult enemies. Player picks up chaingun but then dies. Player left without chaingun now.
Workaround Found: Use PlayerStart Events to trigger a ThingFactory, which drops all weapons in front of the player.
Solutions? Ability to respawn with same weapons (With the weapons default ammo), or ability to set 'starting weapons' at each objective's player starts.


Monster Drops: Monster goodie drop appears to disappear quickly; would like to see these stay around for a bit longer.
Workaround Found: Use pickups instead of monster goodie drops.
Solutions? Give drops a bit more lifespan (30s?) or infinite.

I do understand that this is "Old Skool Monsta Toolz", so I apologies if i'm treating this as something more complex. I'm just trying to create my ideal SP map

Originally Posted by SuperApe

Yes, I wanted an icon that represented a major element of the map; one that is fairly uncommon. The Eye was my choice. It seemed appropriate for the all-encompassing work it does. And although that icon is also used for the 3D camera, the camera tends to move around so much (and so easy) that I figured it might not be confusing. It's also double-sized by default. So, I hope it wasn't too confusing. If it is, I can come up with a custom icon like the various NavPoint icons I made for PatrolPoint, HomeBase, etc.

this isn't a really a problem, it's just me using one viewport i'm used to having an eyeball around the map - It all clicked into place when i placed my own objective manager. If it's quick and easy, maybe just change the color of the eye to blue or something.

[SuperApe]

Originally Posted by outpt.co.uk

Weapons: Halfway through my map, I'd like the player to obtain a chaingun to help with a set of difficult enemies. Player picks up chaingun but then dies. Player left without chaingun now.
Workaround Found: Use PlayerStart Events to trigger a ThingFactory, which drops all weapons in front of the player.
Solutions? Ability to respawn with same weapons (With the weapons default ammo), or ability to set 'starting weapons' at each objective's player starts.

That's a good workaround. I forgot about the PlayerStart Event that triggers on spawn. That's useful!
While you can now define the default weapon (OSMObjectiveManager -> DefaultEquipment -> "<PackageName>.<InventoryName>"), there isn't a way to define the default weapon at each Objective atm. I think your workaround is good and if it works, I'm inclined to call that the "recommended procedure". But if it looks like this is a normally desirable feature, I'll add it.

Originally Posted by outpt.co.uk

Monster Drops: Monster goodie drop appears to disappear quickly; would like to see these stay around for a bit longer.
Workaround Found: Use pickups instead of monster goodie drops.
Solutions? Give drops a bit more lifespan (30s?) or infinite.

Right now the drops are sticking around a default time limit, as if you dropped your own inventory item. Again, that's an awesome workaround: Monster Event -> ThingFactory Tag -> Pickup. I guess I'm feeling the same way about this one; if it sounds like a normally desirable feature, I'll make it available in the stock code as an option to the GoodieDrop items. (Changing this would cause a backwards compatibility issue, as it did earlier when I had to change this property definition)

Originally Posted by outpt.co.uk

I do understand that this is "Old Skool Monsta Toolz", so I apologies if i'm treating this as something more complex. I'm just trying to create my ideal SP map

This is all good stuff. These are the things I need to hear in order to create a toolset that everyone likes and uses. Thank you!

[outpt.co.uk]

Originally Posted by SuperApe

Woot!
Interesting idea. Like an actor with a dynamic array, where you can select a monster (ScriptedMonster) to override, set it's health, skill, maybe set some other things. Hmm. A couple of the things you mentioned are hidden properties, if not just hard-coded (as they were in UT99 too), but there's no reason they can't be properties, really. Let me think about that. That's a neat idea.

At the moment monsters appear to hit a bit too hard (3 hits then dead) - when i don't suck at dodging, they seem to die very easily (again 3 hits) - I would really love to reduce projectile damage and bump up health (Guess I can give em bigger sheilds) to allow both parties to sustain a few more hits.

As a workaround, I can always keep the player and enemy stocked up on shields, and this might give the player something else to look for.

Anyone got any thoughts on hit strength / health?

[SuperApe]

Originally Posted by outpt.co.uk

Anyone got any thoughts on hit strength / health?

I suppose there are a couple things that might help without modifying the stock code.
- Various melee damage values are configurable on many of the ScriptedMonsters.
- Your suggestions to keep the balance through item placement should help.
- Monster use should also be considered. Different monsters. Check out the new Monster Manual Notes thread.
- Monster placement, tactics and Orders can be altered. Placing monsters close, with a high aggressiveness and set to ambush may help make them melee attack instead of ranged attack. IOW, altering the way the monsters attack through setting their placement and combat tactics.
- There are custom ScriptedActions available, one to heal monsters. You could set something up with a HomeBase to have the monsters retreat to a spot where they're able to heal up.
- As a last resort, you could sublcass a ScriptedMonster and modify it's code, subclass it's projectile and modify that code, etc.

[SuperApe]

Please help test the new Team features in the latest version (v0.99b) of the toolset. Download the latest version and test out (both) player teams in TeamGames and monster teams in any gametype. For testing player teams, you'll need to set up a ScriptedTrigger to execute a custom ScriptedAction called ACTION_AssignMonsterToTeam in a custom map (or a modified stock map). For testing monster teams, you'll need to set the monsters up via the AI properties TeamTag and bTeamLeader.

I've done some moderate amount of testing, but I need people to try different things, different gametypes, different maps, etc. and see how the monsters behave either on a player team or as a monster team. This testing is critical and necessary before public release, which should be coming up sometime during the weekend of June 16-18th.

EDIT: Please see my last post on the Old Skool Monsta Toolz Development thread for the details on teams before testing.

Here's a quick pic of my test in ONS-IslandHop, where I set up some Krall to join my team. I expected him to try and follow me, but he suprised me by hitching a ride on my Scorpion while I drove to the next node.