Returning the flag

[Idle Idol]

is it so hard? I've been getting in hideously long flag standoffs lately, all the time. It's so annoying to work, and work, and work, and make a good run all the way across the map...only to have to be a sitting duck for 15 minutes wiating for the flag to return.

On several occasions i've even caught the EFC leaving our base as i return, and ripped him a new one on his way out the door. Doing enough to say...rip through his shield belt, and lower his health to less than 150 (as i could see regen kick back in to effect) and i see like 5 of my teammates in close pursuit, and the enemy is alone. So i start running home, thinking "hes screwed, they got him"....and i wait....and I wait....and I wait....

and i don't see any redeemer/skull messages

and I don't see a bunch of kills, like they got ambushed with a load of rockets and 3 of em died together or something. I mean come on....half the team chasing a mediocre flag runner with no armor and at most 150 health...

is killing the EFC a lost art? Just find the guy with the big glowing thing on his back and shoot him

And pick up the FRIGGIN FLAG! If i have the enemy flag, and i kill the EFC and you see me...YOU GO PICK UP THE FLAG. I need to get back to base!

Earlier today on seussville nights, i don't know who it was, but i had our flag ON OUR FLAG BASE. I was safe, going on the ramp that curves up tot he kicker around the back. I saw the EFC jump in, grab my flag, and run. I killed him, on the next building over on the steps, near side. (by the pulse rifle)

I had 2 teamates RIGHT THERE, at the base of the stairs. There were NO other enemies around, NONE. So, i ran to our flag stand and stood there...and stood there....and stood there...i was there a good 10 seconds. I could hear no fighting, or anything. I died soon after when someone on the other team finally showed up, and i was helpless to defend myself as I banged my head into the monitor. I put the flag on the ground DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF YOU. Unless you are WELL in control of the situation, you're first priority should ALWAYS be RETURN THE FREAKING FLAG.

It's all about priorities, and almost without fail, keeping OUR FLAG HOME is your NUMBER FRIGGIN ONE PRIORITY! ESPECIALLY IF I GIFT WRAP IT AND PUT IT ON THE STAIRS IN FRONT OF YOU! /venting.

and, a quick tidbit of knowdlge that just came up....

If both flags are on the ground near each other, and you're at our base...take the enemy flag. if they grab ours again, they have to run the length of the field to get it home, we can kill them there and it's close. If they touch their flag, it zaps all the way back and we start a run again.

Vice versa at their base, if both flags are on the floor in the enemy base, GET OURS FIRST! Unless the situation ABSOLUTELY mandates you grab theirs (like, it's closer, they have someone already by our flag, they are spaming our flag, etc.) ALl too often i've seen redeemers go off, both flags are there, and people grab the wrong one. whichever makes it harder on the other team, do it.

--Idle, thorn in the side

[Weird Al]

Hell, I never bypass a flag. If the EFC is just a miles better player, I'll keep chase and hope someone on my team is nearby, but the only time I don't chase the EFC is if I'm the FC as well, which usually winds up in a dogfight anyway.

But I can empathise on the time waited to return the flag... although I don't play Runes, so I have less idea about people regenerating and no one's going to suicide with a skull.

Although, that said, if you're sitting around for ages with a flag, chances are their FC is also wondering what's so hard about returning the flag...

[FBMachine]

Originally posted by Idle Idol
So i start running home, thinking "hes screwed, they got him"....and i wait....and I wait....and I wait....

and i don't see any redeemer/skull messages

and I don't see a bunch of kills, like they got ambushed with a load of rockets and 3 of em died together or something. I mean come on....half the team chasing a mediocre flag runner with no armor and at most 150 health...

Duh... They're running to the enemy flag stand to wait for you to die so they can grab the newly returned flag and have their chance at capping ( 90% of players do this, lots of them regs, it baffles me ). OR, they are sitting at the flag stand waiting for the EFC to be stupid enough to come there with their flag gone. My recommendation? Do you have empty cardboard boxes at your job that you can take home? If so, do that, and beat the living hell out of them every time this happens ( you'll need lots of boxes ). This will save your poor mouse, and/or cd cases + other innocent items within arms reach. It will also save your team from a verbal lashing along the lines of "OMFG YOU'RE COMPLETELY USELESS YOU F****** MORONS!!! OMFG!!!!". Yes I've wanted to say that many times.... Instead there are broken things laying around.
Dan

[Play]

Don't want to sound like a Hippi or anything, but c'mon guys. Way to go with the positive encouragements. "You guys all suck, you suck, morons, blah blah"

Could it be possible some of these guys have only been playing UT for a week or two? Maybe they're just not as good as we would hope them to be. We should actively help them improve. Posts in this forum should be educational and encouraging, and not about how lame players are. If I was just learning how to play a game, I would want someone to show me how to play better. I sure as hell would not want someone to tell me how stoopid I am. Please keep it positive.

Thank you.

[FBMachine]

Hey! I don't say that stuff in-game, I only want to sometimes. In fact my favorite in-game taunt is HAPPY THOUGHTS ONLY! BlackShado is the only one that says that stuff outloud!
/me points a finger then runs and hides
Seriously though you're right, it's better to encourage then to tell people they sux. I usually don't do either and just take it out on my mouse or nearby inanimate objects. My problem is as much as I love UT, I get too pissed when I play, which is why I almost never play, and when I get mad I stay away from the t key because I know I'd say something bad. Saying stupid crap like HAPPY THOUGHTS ONLY or taunting with Bill and Ted quotes calms me down sometimes though.
Dan

[Nabsta]

I feel yer pain Idle. Hell half the time I just run back to base if I have flag and pray the flag resets, you can't trust people to pick up flag. I've dropped flag on top of my own flag a 100 times and no one capped it. Its sooo friggin annoying. Lots of folks just want to DM so they can have the highest score and say "You suck"... Hell I play offense 9/10 of the time but I'm not out their trying to DM, I'm out there trying to get flag / help flag carrier. Nothing worse than having to sit on flag for 10minutes, hell I don't. After a few, I'll run back to enemy base, drop flag and wait for efc to pop up. When most flag runners see their flag drop they b-line for base, or at least try to hover near it.

[HortonsWho]

Hey Nabsta-- we had a game recently... ermmm 433 again? Where you and I were the only one returning the flag. Great teamwork- thanks!

[Mirror]

Once I was playing a CTF-Hydro16. And I piston jumped up to the minigun loft undet the belt hideout to seek cover as no one would guess I'm up there. Well both teams had flag and it was suddendeath. 1-1 so no enemies around, base is secure. So I drop the flag for about 4 seconds to get belt only 20ft away and as I return, some n00b spawned ( I am a n00b but would never do this) and grab the flag right when I had belt and he did'nt care. he ran in a straight line with the enforcer and b-lined right to the enemy base. How cna you be that retarded? C'mon theres a big ass message and you pick up a flag and don;t know you have it? He mus of thought it was DM. But we lost due to that.

Mean while at the end are entire team screamed at him and he didn't even care. Most n00bs can't read the messages. But I was so pissed I could've punched him out for that. He had 2 points in 43 mintues. Sigh

[Ajenthavoc]

once, in boot camp, i stuck a shockrifle up idle's

[Blackshado]

Originally posted by Idle Idol
is it so hard? I've been getting in hideously long flag standoffs lately, all the time. It's so annoying to work, and work, and work, and make a good run all the way across the map...only to have to be a sitting duck for 15 minutes wiating for the flag to return.

On several occasions i've even caught the EFC leaving our base as i return, and ripped him a new one on his way out the door. Doing enough to say...rip through his shield belt, and lower his health to less than 150 (as i could see regen kick back in to effect) and i see like 5 of my teammates in close pursuit, and the enemy is alone. So i start running home, thinking "hes screwed, they got him"....and i wait....and I wait....and I wait....

and i don't see any redeemer/skull messages

and I don't see a bunch of kills, like they got ambushed with a load of rockets and 3 of em died together or something. I mean come on....half the team chasing a mediocre flag runner with no armor and at most 150 health...

is killing the EFC a lost art? Just find the guy with the big glowing thing on his back and shoot him

And pick up the FRIGGIN FLAG! If i have the enemy flag, and i kill the EFC and you see me...YOU GO PICK UP THE FLAG. I need to get back to base!

Earlier today on seussville nights, i don't know who it was, but i had our flag ON OUR FLAG BASE. I was safe, going on the ramp that curves up tot he kicker around the back. I saw the EFC jump in, grab my flag, and run. I killed him, on the next building over on the steps, near side. (by the pulse rifle)

I had 2 teamates RIGHT THERE, at the base of the stairs. There were NO other enemies around, NONE. So, i ran to our flag stand and stood there...and stood there....and stood there...i was there a good 10 seconds. I could hear no fighting, or anything. I died soon after when someone on the other team finally showed up, and i was helpless to defend myself as I banged my head into the monitor. I put the flag on the ground DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF YOU. Unless you are WELL in control of the situation, you're first priority should ALWAYS be RETURN THE FREAKING FLAG.

It's all about priorities, and almost without fail, keeping OUR FLAG HOME is your NUMBER FRIGGIN ONE PRIORITY! ESPECIALLY IF I GIFT WRAP IT AND PUT IT ON THE STAIRS IN FRONT OF YOU! /venting.

and, a quick tidbit of knowdlge that just came up....

If both flags are on the ground near each other, and you're at our base...take the enemy flag. if they grab ours again, they have to run the length of the field to get it home, we can kill them there and it's close. If they touch their flag, it zaps all the way back and we start a run again.

Vice versa at their base, if both flags are on the floor in the enemy base, GET OURS FIRST! Unless the situation ABSOLUTELY mandates you grab theirs (like, it's closer, they have someone already by our flag, they are spaming our flag, etc.) ALl too often i've seen redeemers go off, both flags are there, and people grab the wrong one. whichever makes it harder on the other team, do it.

--Idle, thorn in the side

So, what are you trying to say?

[Nitestalker]

I return it, but not to help you cap, just so my stat ho ass can lead in at least on catedgory.

http://www.unrealplayground.com/stat...der=ctfreturns

[Doofus]

I agree Play, though I feel the same as Idle . Especially since I am often the one doing the "dirty work" (i.e. keeping the base clear, or returning the flag) so someone can cap, it gets frustrating when the favor isn't returned (and I am so grateful when it is). I've lost about 2 caps per game on Seussville Nights for the same reasons (flag not returned, or flag not kept in base). It is particularly galling when the EFC caps within 1 second of your being killed; it means they were not evading but sitting on top of their flag in plain sight (3/4 of the difficulty in killing the EFC is finding them).

Unfortunately Idol, frustrating as it is, sometimes the skills just aren't there yet, especially in the relix game. If the EFC is equally evasive or a good killer, or has good defenders, it's hard for less talented players to get to them, ESPECIALLY if they have a relic such as axe, D, regen, or speed, or if someone with them has skull. Returning the flag is second nature to me; I usually have some ideas as to where the EFC is, what weapons will be effective in what situations, and if I can't get them the first time, I almost always will by the second or third time. Sometimes I am guarding our FC and after awhile, I'll realize our team isn't successful, and I'll teamsay "hang in there; going to hunt EFC". 9 times out of 10, I have no problem getting our flag back. You just can't expect the same from all players. In Seussville Nights, for instance, 9 out of 10 players never look up to see if the EFC is on a roof (hehe...makes them easier to kill, because they are so bored up there waiting for their flag to come back, they drop their guard).

Skills only come with experience, but strategy can be taught. I've stopped screaming about it in game, but in case ANY of the players are reading the chat, I'll say something like "Folks, flag has to be in base for us to cap." Probably does as little good as screaming, but over time, some might start getting the message.

If you realize you don't have a lot of depth on your team in the pubs, then I think you just have to alter your playing style. If I KNOW I am not going to get much support in keeping our base clear, then maybe I NEED to have that deemer to clear my own base at the end of a flag run. Or if you know you won't get support on offense, then become support for the less skilled FCs (though that can be ungratifying, since they are unwilling to do the same for you). Or leave until more saavy players show up. I've often been the top scorer on the losing end of a 0-6 or 1-6 blowout, and often can tell before the game starts from the team rosters that that will be the outcome. All I can do is play the best I can, work on skills, having already accepted the meager likelihood of a competetive match.

One things less skilled players can do is COMMUNICATE!! Even if you can't kill the EFC on your own, DO communicate their location, or pertinent info (i.e. "EFC has speed, regen, D relic, etc", "EFC on roof", EFC heavily guarded in base").

Idol's advice at the end of his post, about what to do with 2 flags on the ground, is VERY important too.