DM-DarkArena -REVIEWED- (55)

[Freakish]

This review's from Aussie to Aussie, via the Playground.

The top section is accessed from jump pads, and can be exited through either double jumping off the top, or going down through the massive metal funnel, which I thought was a great addition

[Cobra]

Verry good review Simeon.

[Morphias]

Very nice review of my map Lord Simeon, but I just don't understand the rating system.

I know this map of mine the bots tend to hang around the bottom, I made this intentionally to give the map real hardcore action on the bottom and some spots higher up to pick em all off one by one. I think adding more kickers would have made the map too easy and all you would be seeing is bots going on the kickers all the time.

I am to assume the flow in this map is not good, so i have no idea how a map should flow. If it means that you need to be contantly walking while your shooting or have an easy exit, then that is not flow to me, thats boring. To me flow is where your not getting stuck trying to get a powerup, or running into dead ends all the time, so please give me a 10000 word esay on what flow is, because all my maps I have made, have bad flow, so I am in the dark on that subject.

I made this map for bots, not so much humans, as Lord pointed out, spawn campers can hide in the spwan rooms and get some easy kills, but they will end up losing anyway, as all the fighting is in the arena, and they won't be getting many kills to keep up. I tried this with the bots, and ended up losing by 20+ kills, so campers beware.

Lord, I love the review, but the rating does not fit the review, sorry man. This is why there is so much contraversy over the rating system and the reviews. A near perfect review and a low rating does not justify the review and vise versa.

Thanks Lord, maybe my next map will score a little higher, as soon a s I figure out this flow thing.

[Cobra]

I think that you had a VERY good rating on your map. Cause if it whas me you whould have about 50. I played it a couple of times. fast and furious. But way to much thing's that I didn't like. First the game play is always at the same place in the midle. I have whach the bots the could be improuve a lot. And so on. A good map but for me not complete. You should have gone to the beta section.

[Lord_Simeon]

heres the run down.......

gameplay is the main component of score.
this accounts for 24.5% of the overall score, IF you were to score 100 for each of the brackets.

Flow and gameplay also walk hand in hand as with out flow, there is no gameplay and vice versa.

your map. we'll talk about flow.
Top tier - you have in total eight ways down to the 2nd tier, and up again, from the use of ramps. Nice.
2nd Tier - you have the same back up to the top tier, plus 4 jump pads onto the very top, top level. Also good.

heres where it fails in flow.
3rd tier - when your down there, the only way up is from teleporters, which is perilously close to the falling volume pit, located under a ramp.flow killers.

Once you get to the bottom, the flow is severely hampered by only one way back up top.
Even just 2 jump pads back up to the top tiers would have done this map the world of good.

Hope this clears things up for you a bit more.

[Morphias]

Originally posted by Cobra
I think that you had a VERY good rating on your map. Cause if it whas me you whould have about 50. I played it a couple of times. fast and furious. But way to much thing's that I didn't like. First the game play is always at the same place in the midle. I have whach the bots the could be improuve a lot. And so on. A good map but for me not complete. You should have gone to the beta section.

Thats what an arena map is, where else do you want to ****ing go in an arena map, geeez.

As for the bots, they do fine, I have not seen any of them get stuck or lost.

Thanx any way, you just made me not want to submit a any more maps for review.

[Cobra]

Yes it is arena. But they have to take all the map. Not only the main floor. And sory the bots could be improuve a lot. If you are to ack like that, don't put any more maps for review. I could take your map. And the bots whould do any thing that I whant them to do.

[Freakish]

Originally posted by Morphias
Thats what an arena map is, where else do you want to ****ing go in an arena map, geeez.

Sounds like your choice in environment limited flow and gameplay. Fine, you created an arena - but it wasn't as good as it could be.

Post a thread in 2k3 beta maps to see how you could do better.

[Morphias]

Ok.

I got some replies, and everyone said the bottom level of may map had no way out except a kicker, and the bots stick around there and fight it out, thats what I thought this game was all about, killing and winning.

I did what Lord said and added 2 kickers to the bottom level to kick you back to the top level, well it really sucked, the bots just got to the bottom level and went straight back upto the top, then died, if this is flow then keep your reviews, because it made my map basically unplayable, all I was doing was following bots up the kickers all the time, instead of having it out to the death, which is what I thought this game was all about, not following bots around and shooting them in the back.

Also, the bots kinda ignored the middle part of the map and voted to use the kickers to get back up, which distracted gameplay from where I wanted it. Bots ignore power ups and go for weapons first, so they did not use my middle part of the map, if fact I stood up there and fragged almost all my kills there with lords suggestion, but I can't do that with the way my map is now. So which is better, getting 50 kills and 1 death, or having a good old battle to the death.

Really you guys have to realise people make maps to suit them and the map, just because I have 10 ways into a room and only 1 way out, does not make it stupid or bad flow, if the map was intended to be like that.

It is really starting to make me think, that the reviewers take into account their own style of map and gameplay they like.

We can't all make maps with the same concept, how boring would that be.

Sounds like your choice in environment limited flow and gameplay. Fine, you created an arena - but it wasn't as good as it could be.

Fine, if you think you can impove it, go ahead, but keep in mind this is an arena map, not a map where you can go for a walk, or hide in the corner and pick ya knose.

IMO the bots work this map great, and Lord there are 3 ways back to the top of my map, adding kickers and more teleporters just made the map boring and I could never target a bot long enough before they went into a teleport or up a kicker, which made the gameplay worse then what it already is.

This map is what it is suppose to be, a proper death match.

Don't get me wrong, I am not raggin the review, just the score, because there is nothing visually really wrong with this map, and as Lord said, gameplay is 24.5% of the total score, so what did I get there a FAT 0.

To me 55 does not justify the review, my Kalopious scored higher, and the gameplay in that map is slower and sometimes boring.

So I give up trying to make a map for scroe, i'll just make maps for my own personal tatse, and if nobody likes it, then who cares anyway.

[Morphias]

Originally posted by Cobra
Yes it is arena. But they have to take all the map. Not only the main floor. And sory the bots could be improuve a lot. If you are to ack like that, don't put any more maps for review. I could take your map. And the bots whould do any thing that I whant them to do.

I got the bots to do exactly what I wanted them to do, so you can not say because you can get them to do what you want them to do, the map would score higher, that would be unjust. The bots in my map go everywhere I have told them to go, it is not my fault if they decide to fight it out on the bottom level, wtf do you want them to do, navigate the whole map apick up every item, then start fighting,, as you can see I am still lost as to what you guys call flow, it seems like a load of bull.

I submitted my maps for review, because i thought UP was fare, guess I was wrong.

Maybe you guys should list indvidual scores for each category, so we can see exactly where we went wrong with getting a good score, and exactly how the reviewer scroed our map, then maybe I will submit a map for review, but I won't be anymore.

[Cobra]

Ok man. Your bots are perfect. Is that ok.

[Freakish]

Lord's kicker suggestion was just that - a suggestion. It's not meant as a recipe for success.

Reviews are meant to evaluate the work you've completed; sometimes helpful comments are dropped in but I doubt any reviewers have time (or interest) to go into your map and edit it to perfection. That's why these comments are only suggestions.

I hold no illusions that what I say will get through to you, so I'll stop here.

[Morphias]

Of course it won't get through to me!

You say reviewers give suggestions that might improve a map, but when those suggestions are implemented, they don't work, then the suggestion is flawed and the rating is worthless.

Cobra:
I never said my bots were perfect, just that I got them to do exactly what I wanted. Not what a reviewer would like them to do, thats where the rating system falls apart.

I find it real hard to take advice from reviewers, when they have maps that score much lower then the general community, reviewers should have a minimum average score before they can start reviewing maps and give suggestions on improving someone else's work.

Yes there are some crap maps, but there are some really nice ones getting low scores, so it's hard to find a low score and a near perfect review justifiable. Thats what I am getting at!

[Squirrelinabox]

Heh just want to point out a fundamental flaw with your entire thinking here morphias.

By your own philosophy, if I decide I want my map to be a one room cube with no spawn points, it should score a 100 because that is what I wanted. If I don't want spawn points or any more than one plan cube room, then I shouldn't be docked for having no spawn points and no creativity.

But, like freakish, I too don't have any illusions of you actually listening to anybody.

[Lord_Simeon]

Oh i give up.

Yes, your absolutely right.
Your right and everyone else is wrong.
I will change your score to 90%, no, make it 95%, and also i'll get CliffyB to give you "ownage" too.
Would it be OK if EPIC use your map in the upcoming UT2004 too, they are looking for the best maps to go with the game, and obviously yours is up there with EPIC quality maps.

*end rant*

I spent close to 5 hours reviewing your map, and had a second opinion on the scoring (who thought i scored you too high, i might add), so if your not satisfied with the result, don't put your maps in to be reviewed.