Ctf-up

[HortonsWho]

While Tonumbra is on vacation, I whipped up this one in a couple of hours... I'd like to know if you feel the layout is something worth continuing... otherwise, it is far from done. I did this to learn very basic vertex editing. There would be a way to move from high to low/low to high in the large center room eventually.

This was also an attempt to resurrect the simpler, more striaghtforward gameplay of UT that many say is lacking from 2k3.

http://www.unrealplayground.com/download.php?mapid=1442

[Cobra]

Sure go one, it look damn good, c'ant wait to see that finish.;)

[FBMachine]

For the most part the routes seem good, but there are some killer problems. First, the top side exits from the flag room are a death sentence for flag carriers. They are too long and cramped, it's too easy for a defender to cut them off and spam them to hell, and they'd have no room to manuver to dodge. There's the same problem, even more so perhaps, in the lower passages leading to the center room. Spam down that passage and they have no choice but to die, it's just too long and really cramped. Also if you brush up against the walls in those passages, you slow to a crawl ( if not stop completely ), as if the crampedness wasn't bad enough. ;) If you make those passages a viable route, and make it so you can switch between high/low routes in the center like you're planning, it should flow nicely.
Dan

[Gui]

Nice ambient sounds ;)

[zacharypike]

very cool map

[HortonsWho]

Yeah--- I was afraid those narrow tunnels were too cramped... they've been replaced with larger corridors that will be broken up, not one straight shot. The lower corridors that slope down to the center have been opened up as well.

Thanks!

[Blitz]

I agree with FBMachine on the corridors. One suggestion on those sloping corridors on the lower level would be to make them into conveyors. That would give runners a little speed boost, allowing them to keep pace with runners on the top, and also it would reduce the chances of getting caught in there and spammed to death.

I really like the layout of the top level, but would repeat the concern that it is too easy to get caught up by brushing against some of the walls. I definitely think it's worth continuing.

[HortonsWho]

Thanks all-

I'll take this basic layout, the comments that have been made, then redo it... it will look similar but hopefully address everything.

I need to redo many of the brushes anyway to address some alignment problems.

:)

[HortonsWho]

OK--

Here is the radically altered version of CTF-UP (not real name). :p

Thanks for all the feedback. Tighter now, no big middle room, multiple paths once you get out of flag room. No more narrow corridors.

A couple of player starts, no wep's nor bot pathes yet...

How is the layout now?


Download (http://www.unrealplayground.com/download.php?mapid=1537)

[Blitz]

I like the layout. Quite a change from the last version, but still interesting, I think. It would be interesting to see those giant gears spinning...or, maybe not. I think the lower level could lend itself to some interesting firefights, but overall the map needs a little more Z-axis potential.

As before, nice work with the sounds and the meshes.

On the bottom level, consider moving the big tank in the attached picture, as it will be difficult to convince the bots to take the shortcut near the wall, and might give human players an advantage.

[HortonsWho]

Thanks Blitz. Those tanks in the bottom-center were a quick add to break up the view. Good point about the bots.

TY

[HortonsWho]

In case you want to try but haven't yet-- the cheezy temp jump pads have been replaced with lifts.

thanks in advance... hint hint hint.

;)

[HortonsWho]

One more plea, beg, implore for feedback.

Here is what I hope is the final design before pathing and optimizing... though I am getting 60-100+ fps now.

http://www.unrealplayground.com/download.php?mapid=1555

Pretty please?

[Blitz]

Ok, I'll look again and see if that inspires someone else to look....

Layout looks good, but the bottom has some places that are too dark. Also noticed some issues with collision on some of the meshes. The teleporter to your secret area winks out when you back away from it. (see screenshot)

I noticed some more "human only" shortcuts around those tanks, too, so if you get around to fixing that, check all of them.

Things I liked were:

- For a large map, it is not difficult to learn your way around.
- Many interesting ambush spots
- Several routes to the flag, with the ability to jump between them fairly easily.
- Very nice sound work
- Decent lighting (but needs to be brighter "downstairs")


That arrow in the screenshot is supposed to show that I was standing on air between the pipes.

[HortonsWho]

I set the telporter as a corona so that it was less obvious. The walking in air is the collision around the meshes... doesn't bother me too much.

Basement lighting-- yeah, prolly too dark... though the corners need to be because of what is *cough* hidden there... and I haven't adjusted those tanks yet that you pointed out.

Thanks Blitz


:)

[Blitz]

You got me...I missed that *cough* hidden stuff. Add that to the list of things I like. I still think you could brighten it up a little without giving too much away.

For example, if you set most of the collision settings to false on certain meshes, but set bBlockZeroExtentTraces and bCollideActors to true, the meshes would stop rockets but not people. Might help the illusion along.

Another thing you could do is put collision hulls on the sides of those topside meshes so that players have to run through them dead on.

[HortonsWho]

A few more screenshots:

[HortonsWho]

Can somebody please add a few bots to this, find them, and see if you can hear their gunfire? Suddenly I cannot... they're silent.

[Scourgem]

Originally posted by HortonsWho
Can somebody please add a few bots to this, find them, and see if you can hear their gunfire? Suddenly I cannot... they're silent.

At first I could... but after playing for about 5 minutes, they just went completely silent.

:scratch:

I'll try to figure out exactly when this happens.

[MortalPlague]

I was playing it, very nice map Hort, with bots too. Before I saw this plea. However, I played it with my mod, which has instagib machineguns, because there weren't any weapons already in place. I didn't play to five minutes, but I didn't hear any enemy wepaons. But that could've been my mod, cause sometimes you don't hear the shots being fired at you until you die. :blah:

Sounds are wonderful in this, of course!

[Blitz]

I could hear sounds in the flag areas, and directly beneath, but not out toward the middle. To be clear, I heard impact sounds but not the sounds of the weapons firing. I could hear all sounds on my own weapons.

[Scourgem]

Yup, Blitz is right... you can hear it everywhere except the lower middle part of the map. There's a sort of line where the silent area begins... I've tried to indicate it on the screenie below.

Some kind of zoning / volume problem? I don't know. :scratch:

[Blitz]

I noticed the problem in the top, middle as well, so extend that line along the vertical plane and it's probably about right. I also tested launching from the editor vs. launching the game and playing, but there was no noticable change in the behavior of the problem. My first thought was also a zoning/volume issue, but the level is one big zone at the moment, and there were no volumes that I noticed.


I deleted all the AmbientSound objects from the level and tried it, and this time I could hear the bots everywhere. So perhaps its either the quantity of sounds (there were 65), insufficient occlusion, or too many overlapping sounds. I'll leave you to troubleshoot from there, but let us know when you narrow it down...I'd like to know for my own reference.

[FBMachine]

Ok I just downloaded the latest and gave it a quick run through... It flows way better then the first version, by a long shot. The middle room seemed a little cluttered to me though... it's cool that there's lots of cover, but it may be a bit much. I dunno about the weird bot quietness, I got that too... I'm about to watch a DVD, I'll look at it more thoroughly afterwards.
Dan

[HortonsWho]

It appears that somewhere, quantity of sounds may have become an issue--- but the change happened without me changing any ambient sounds... hmmmm...

I don't know if there is a physical limit to sound keypoints or what. It looks like sound assignments such as weapon pickups, footsteps, etc all factor in too... grrrrrr.

I deleted several but it hasn't fixed the issue.

[MortalPlague]

Another odd thing...found your secret (no pickup sound for that, btw) but when I was ascending the secret ramp and in the corridor behind it, the effect below was happening. Here's a pic...

I went through it a second time, but all I didn't find any sort of projector like I had thought I would...:dunno:

[Blitz]

I found this link (http://unreal.epicgames.com/Audio.htm) petaining to UT, but it describes a hard limit to the number of sound effects. Look at the last paragraph in the "sound slots" section. The info is rather incomplete, but it may be a starting point for you. I couldn't find any reference to a similar limit in ut2003, but I assume that's what you're running into.

[HortonsWho]

Thanks Blitz! Hmmmm--- I wonder if turning the radii down will help--- looks like I have too many sounds crossing the central area---



Mortal-- I have NO IDEA what that is--- I turned the disco ball option OFF. lol

[HortonsWho]

Looks like the culprit wasn't quantity of sfx but volume levels-- I turned off BFullVolume TRUE where I was using it and everything is back to normal... now to go back slowly increase levels to get the soundscape back.

Thanks gang.

[-=JUDGE=-]

I can not seem to d/l this map.. keep getting download.php for the file ...

:scratch:

[HortonsWho]

Originally posted by iamthewebguy
I can not seem to d/l this map.. keep getting download.php for the file ...

:scratch:

dunno-- is working for everybody else- hmmmm

[FBMachine]

That happens when you try to 'open' instead of 'save as' in Netscape. And when you choose 'save as', at first it says 'download.php', but when the dialog comes up asking where to put it, it is correct.
Dan

[HortonsWho]

Hehe-- tic-tac-toe anybody?

[-=JUDGE=-]

OMG .. no foot steps! argh!

Not sure if I downloaded an old version... but I feel like a ninja with me silent footsteps.. learnt that back with master Chin .. walking on rice paper.

ok.. seriously..

I really didn't like the plain style of this map. It just looks too bleak for me. reminds me of an older UT map. I'm sure you will be adding more details as time goes on.. but for now I can only comment on what I saw.

The layout is cool.. and with some tweaking could be real nice.. for CTF games.

I am also not really drawn into any theme.. where am I supposed to be? I kinda feel like I am in a dam's interior.. with pumps and stuff.

Let me know as you update this map.. would be interesting to see what you do with it.

[HortonsWho]

The version currently UP is a bit old--- I'll post an update soon... the footsteps was the problem with total sound volumes from a large amount of keypoints. That has been fixed.


I intentionally was using more BSP/leaving it a little plain-- I wanted more of the old UT quality of play since the EPic CTF maps are so densely cluttered, making it difficult to see.


mmmm-- maybe I'll UPload and UPdate later today.

[HortonsWho]

Latest version.

http://www.unrealplayground.com/download.php?mapid=1597

Zoning and Anti-portals in. Several weapons, brighter/better lighting at lowest level and some more eye-candy. I'm hoping to keep this more like a classic UT map and not over-do the eye-candy while crafting some decent gameplay. For this beta I'd appreciate any bug reports and also your thoughts on weapon/item placement. How much and where? Thanks!

[MortalPlague]

Sounds like what I attempted with DM-Frosty... :rolleyes:

Well, I'll try that version soon as I get on a comp that runs UT2003. :D