w00t pack II - Released!

[JohnnySix]

Download now! (http://www.extremew00t.com/mappack.htm)

Video trailer! (http://www.extremew00t.com/video_trailer_w00t_ii.htm)

12 maps , 2 servers

Texas, US (Thanks Nihil!) unreal://67.18.246.18:7777 ("")

Amsterdam, EU unreal://213.244.180.66

# Default w00t - Sabby
http://www.extremew00t.com/images/maps/defaultw00t2.jpg

# Facing w00ts - Sabby
http://www.extremew00t.com/images/maps/facew00t01.jpg

# Fast and w00tabulous ][ - Killroy
http://www.extremew00t.com/images/maps/fasterw00t02.jpg

# Granite w00t - Sabby & Derdak2Rot
http://www.extremew00t.com/images/maps/granite02.jpg

# Muddy w00ters. - Derdak2Rot
http://www.extremew00t.com/images/maps/muddy01.jpg

# Pirates of the w00t - Derdak2Rot
http://www.extremew00t.com/images/maps/Pirates01.jpg

# Ratchet w00t - Sabby
http://www.extremew00t.com/images/maps/ratchetw00t-02.jpg

# Silver w00ter - Derdak2Rot
http://www.extremew00t.com/images/maps/w00tsilver01.jpg

# Training w00t -Sabby
http://www.extremew00t.com/images/maps/trainingw00t-02.jpg

# w00ting on the night train -Sabby
http://www.extremew00t.com/images/maps/nighttrain-01.jpg

# w00t like an egyptian - Sabby & Killroy
http://www.extremew00t.com/images/maps/w00t-egypt2.jpg

# w00t to Napali - Sabby & Derdak2Rot
http://www.extremew00t.com/images/maps/w00tnapali01.jpg

[-=Stencil=-]

Download now! (http://www.extremew00t.com/mappack.htm)

12 maps :

# Default w00t
# Facing w00ts
# Fast and w00t ][
# Granite w00t
# Muddy w00ters.
# Pirates of the w00t
# Ratchet w00t
# Silver w00ter
# Training w00t
# night train
# like an egyptian
# w00t to Napali

http://www.extremew00t.com/images/maps/fasterw00t02.jpg
http://www.extremew00t.com/images/maps/defaultw00t2.jpg
http://www.extremew00t.com/images/maps/granite02.jpg

gj ! very nice

[WW_Nihil]

Just the new wootpack ii maps for now, Texas server 6 bots 65% air control IG/weapons voting.
unreal://67.18.246.18:7777

[JohnnySix]

Just the new wootpack ii maps for now, Texas server 6 bots 65% air control IG/weapons voting.
unreal://67.18.246.18:7777

:rockon: Thanks Nihil!

[Derdak2rot]

w00t !

...awesome :rockon:

[Lord Kafer]

Ran through some of these real quick last night. These comments are all based on my memmory of what I saw, so please disregard any blatant errors. BTW, are you still planning on releasing that map with the giant Japanese TV mascot Sabby/Johnny?

# Facing w00ts - Sabby
The skybox looked half-baked. The sun and some of the other sheets look like squares - the textures have been clipped. I didn't really like the smaller sized bases. What I would really have liked to have seen was w00t pads that took advantage of the tall bases (like a pad from the back of the tower to the top) and maybe some intermediary floating islands or perhaps some to the sides.

# Granite w00t - Sabby & Derdak2Rot
Very classy looking, great texture! Loved the circular lay out.

# Pirates of the w00t - Derdak2Rot
Nice to see an official release of this map. Too bad you couldn't keep the peices canted like they were in the beta (personally, I never hit any snags while playing it). It would have been nice to see w00t pads out to the islands instead of (I think) transporters.

# Silver w00ter - Derdak2Rot
Visually my favorite of the pack.

# Training w00t -Sabby
:)

# w00ting on the night train -Sabby
A little too cramped for me. At least on the sub you could get back on if you fell in the water. BTW, you don't die immediately upon entering the (water?) kill zone but bob back to the surface at least once. You can also see projectiles continuing through after hitting the surface and leaving a splash ring - shouldn't be as big of a problem in instagib.

# w00t like an egyptian - Sabby & Killroy
Not my cup of tea.

# w00t to Napali - Sabby & Derdak2Rot
Visually my second favorite of the pack despite the hidious pink sky.

[JohnnySix]

Cheers for playing through. :)

Btw the 'Facing w00ts' skybox is the one from Facing worlds, but with Earth swapped for a new Venus texture, so cry to Epic for the half-bakedness. :p

Did you try them on the server?

[Lord Kafer]

I have very little access to high speed internet for the summer I'm afraid, so no, I haven't played them online. Thank you very much to all those involved BTW.

[XYZ8000]

Honestly I was a bit disappointed from this pack. W00T maps have often been criticized for having a too small and quick layout. The First Map Pack had some quick maps, but most of the maps were much more complex than the original. Afterwards in the mapping contest we saw some complex layout too. But now, why getting back to simple layouts?
Other troubles that I found in many maps are long deaths (why not insta-kill water anymore?) and missing playercounts (not a tragedy, but still it would have been better to add them).
Anyway, I'll comment on each one:


# Default w00t

Cool idea, I liked how you managed to get a good-looking map with such textures XD. But the enjoyment stopped there: gameplay is way too simple for me, there's even less Z-Axis than in the original W00Tabulous.


# Facing w00ts

Cool remake, but also there I would have liked a little more gameplay complexity (considering that the first FacingW00T was more complex)


# Fast and w00t ][

Good map, fast but with many ways and not as open as the first of the series. I don't know how you could miss the humongous HOMs on 4 pillars in the center area though (dunno if only I see them thanks to the Software rendering).


# Granite w00t

Good map, but it didn't feel well connected to me. I disliked the one-way exit from the flag room, and you need to walk for a few time to use another way rather than the quick one. The slime should have been insta-kill.


# Muddy w00ters.

Looks good, plays well. 12 players are a bit of massacre here, I would stick to 8 max. What I disliked most of this map was without any doubt the death sequence, it takes way too much (long fall + non-insta-death water = zzz)


# Pirates of the w00t

Good map, feels cramped in many places but overall you did a good job with this one. Maybe another use (more connected to the ship with SWJP) of the islands would have been nice. The map is pretty unbalanced, but it doesn't ruin the gameplay.


# Ratchet w00t

Finally a vertical layout like the ones that I liked from the first W00T pack. Many ways, many interconnections, many Z-Axis. I like this map gameplay wise, although it was too dark for me. Visuals were less impressive, I didn't love the texture usage (especially trims).


# Silver w00ter

Good looking but way too simple gameplay-wise. The 2 JPs near the flag are too fast IMO, another platform in the middle could have increased the enjoyability. I was totally pissed off from one playerstart that you placed very badly, I always fell when I spawned in that PS (probably it was behind the flag, I didn't see it well).


# Training w00t

OKish but one way to enter the flagbase....


# night train

It's hard to move in there, and there is barely any cover to be found. It flows better than HuntForTheW00TOctober though


# W00T like an egyptian

Not my cup of coffee... I usually don't appreciate 1on1 CTF maps even when you have some time to stop the enemy, here it's all too fast IMO. SilverW00Ter seems better as a 1on1, here there aren't alternative ways or anything.


# w00t to Napali
Another quite complex layout for a W00T, I found some jumppads being placed not in a very flowy way and falling down in the waterzone (lava...) isn't rare.



An OK pack overall, I preferred the previous 2 packs but the overall quality of this is above average too. I wasn't hooked from the gameplay of most of the maps though, this is a kind of return to the W00T root (simple and quick) which will leave many non-instagib users that enjoyed the first 2 packs pretty disappointed. I myself don't like IG much, so I will play only few of the maps.

[[IMD1]KillRoy]

.....

# Fast and w00t ][

Good map, fast but with many ways and not as open as the first of the series. I don't know how you could miss the humongous HOMs on 4 pillars in the center area though (dunno if only I see them thanks to the Software rendering).

.....

Hmmm, I have had a look at it, and it seems that the HOM's appear when in Software rendering...

I myself use the enhanced OpenGL renderer for Unreal Tournament (http://cwdohnal.home.mindspring.com/utglr/) (scroll to botom of page for latest version) because my GeForce TI4200 refuse to work on D3D with the latest GeForce drivers...

In the enhanced OpenGL mode it all looks fine, can't say if it renders fine in D3D mode, did not have any complaints about it though..

[JohnnySix]

Hmm, why would anyone be playing the game in software rendering in 2007? :dunno:

[TexasGtar]

Hey XYZ- Would you test my map? You seem to have good points on the woot mapping and i would really appreciate your feedback.

I don't think i have missed anything and it is done as far as i am concerned but i don't want to hear comments like what you have found in the woot pack maps. Sounds like some maps got the rush job.

If so you can PM me or reply here.

Not sure when the release of that woot pack will be but there is time to fix anything you might find. Ive tested it to death and can find nothing.

But you may and you also might think up gameplay improvements that i can't see anymore since i have had it so long.

Did you test this already? I can't remember.

[Hostile]

I like the short, and sweet maps. To me thats what makes woot fun. Not like the lava giant type maps were you run long distances to get flag then die half way. Start all over again, run, run, run. :loopy:
I liked the facing woot one the most. It stands true to face without all the running.

XYZ if you don't like Instagib, why would you comment on maps made for it? It's like comparing apples to oranges. There are a couple that is not my cup of tea, but I'm sure some will like them. You do a very good job of beta testing, but you should keep an open mind when it comes to woot. They are all about fast & spammy.

O, yeah one more little thing Upgrade! software render was for the old p200 days. This is 2007 you know. :D

Anyway, I played a few on the server....the only one so far that I had a hard time with was silverwooters. I have to agree with XYZ on that one.
I haven't had time to try them all yet, but the ones I have own! :rockon:

[Derdak2rot]

I like the short, and sweet maps. To me thats what makes woot fun ... They are all about fast & spammy.

hostile got the w00t right there :D

Honestly I was a bit disappointed from this pack. W00T maps have often been criticized for having a too small and quick layout. The First Map Pack had some quick maps, but most of the maps were much more complex than the original. Afterwards in the mapping contest we saw some complex layout too. But now, why getting back to simple layouts?

those maps are first made for online play in mind , not to mention that the bots cant play like humans , so offline w00t is not the more enjoyable ;)
there is a large range of maps for players capablity , 1on1 , 2on2 , its better to vary the gameplay . newcomers can also join and learn the layouts quiclky and be competitive early , which gives great matchs .. i think this pack follow well the last ones , and give variety to visual and gameplay :)

m8 , i really would like to see some w00t maps from you , you have some good gameplay knowledge , im sure you could make something awesome for this :)

[JohnnySix]

Yeah - as much as I apreciate you taking the time to play through the pack XYZ - it'd be comparable to me doing a review of Bunny Track - I have no understanding of that gameplay, and have never played it online - so I couldn't really put forward an opinion on it.

Gameplay aside though, thanks for the technical comments. :)

[TexasGtar]

I think XYZ has given exactly the kind of feedback all mappers (woot or otherwise) should be looking for. He has valid points. Even if he does not get the one woot flag one woot score scenario. I agree that those maps for me are no fun at all. There should be some kind of challenge to them. Of course i have played woot online a little and i know that the majority of folks like spammy fast two second caps on the woot maps. But if we try to sit back and listen and open ou5 rrminds to what people say....in the long run..it only helps woot because it will make the maps more diversified so more people can enjoy it.

I say thanks to XYZ for stating his opinion without predjudice. This is what he wants to see in woot maps. It doesn't mean the woot you like is no more...just maybe open some thoughts about a new way to woot map.

Of course i agree with him. Thus my remarks. I don't really care for the 2 second cap maps either. There is no challenge or skill involved to me. Its just jump grab cap jump grab cap. That to me is just plain dull and boring. It becomes more of a timing game. Who gets spawned at the right time rather than a skill needed to win.

I don't want to bad mouth those maps because i can understand why people like them. But remember ..try to understand that here is at least 2 people who just don't get it and there are probably more out there who would like more complicated woot mappage.

Variety is the spice of life. I appreciate trying to keep things organized and looking like they all belong together but that should not include the spped of caps and limited paths to and from flags just because it is a woot map.

Okay..that was probably way more than my 2 cents worth but ..there i said it. I think every one knew i felt this way anyhoo. Maybe not? But i am one of those players who does not like the fast insta cap maps. It's only a preference. That's all. If we all liked the same thing..the world would be very boring.

I havent got the pack yet so i can't comment directly on the maps yet but i will get it this week sometime as there looks to be some fun ones in there and i have seen some back during the origional woot comp.

[JohnnySix]

Haha, sure Tex, but with respect to yourself and XYZ, it's like a hard rock fan going into a Britney Spears forum and criting her sugary pop music in terms of gnarly riffage and shredding - one the rules of decent rock don't apply to Britney, and the hard rock fan just isn't qualified to judge the Britney stuff, since they've not had any experience of it.


Anyway, off to a party, I won't be coherent for most of the weekend. Catch you monday.

:rockon:

[TexasGtar]

Well..yeah i kinda see your analogy but does it apply to an opinion?

If i liked hard attack rock and went t5o a britney concert...then i should be expecting i won't like it already.

I think the difference here is that i like unreal tournament. There is no doubt. Woot falls into that category. So for me and others..i might want to see woot done in a way i like. It isn't critisicm to say i prefer it this way or that way..but rather an expreession of your likes and dislikes. I like UT ,,i like capture the flag...i like the whole woot concept. But i can still prefer a more complex map to play it in.

I can have fun in a fast map online. (even on dialup) I think what you have done is catered to the majority of what people playing online want. Which is great. But everyone isn't going to like it and we all know you can't make everyone happy in this world no matter what you do.

I just feel like woot is in it's infancy. Yet to be fully developed. It began this way....and has broadened it's horizons to incorporate a whole new set of genres that cater to peoples preferences across the board (in the future of woot) That would be what i would like to see.

I think if you stick to this fast cap map as ageneralization of "this is woot" and this other map isn't because it takes too long to make a cap then you are limiting your possibilities of what might develop out if it in the near future.

Perhaps i am trying to see things that you really don't want to happen. It's your thing thouigh and ican only say that your maps that i have are some of the ones i play. Therefore you have drawn me into it with the style and gameplay. I just want more.(always) ;) But that is just me. Change with the times or the times will change without you. That is the reality of anything that happens in this world.Even the best layed out idea will be improved upon or at least altered throughout it's lifetime.

I don't hate the fast maps i just prefer more. So i guess my opinion is slightly different. I can take them or leave them. But because that is what is out there...what else can you do?

I probably am not making this very clear. I think at one time i had a point i wanted to make but now i have confused myself. Ha!

I suppose i am trying to say what is the harm in diversifying some woot maps? Wouldn't it create a larger stronger woot community? Wouldn't that be good for all? There will always be the fast woot maps dominating the servers. People are used to them. But you know as well as me that some people see the word woot in front of a map and won't even think about getting it. Because they have a preconcieved notion of what it is.

Okay im done. Woot on! Have a good time at your party.

[JohnnySix]

I'm just sticking with what has worked online and has been fun to play, on the server I have paid for and run since Dec 05.

If anyone who wants to pay for and invest the time in setting up their own website server, paying for advertising and hiring coders to improve AI etc, then go for it. :)

If someone feels the need to come in and criticise what I am doing, I wholeheartedly respect their right to do so.

However, and again, with the utmost of respect, for someone who doesn't play the server weekly, they are unqualified to judge the gameplay of maps.

It's like me going in and judging BT maps - There have been some awesome looking BT maps, but I am in no position to judge them on their playability, simply because I don't play that gametype at all, online or offline, and therefore have no experience on which to judge it.

If I was part of that community, and played it weekly at the very least, I would be qualified to judge them as BT maps. As an outsider to that scene and with no concept of what makes a good BT map, I am in no position to judge them, except perhaps on their looks/technical skill (brushwork/lighting/general aesthetics).


I just wanted to have fun with the pack and put together a new set of awesome maps that'd continue the trend of what has been popular on the server since Dec '05, and with some help from some exceptionally talented mappers, to try bring it to the mainstream a little.

So to address your point, there is no harm in diversifying, and as you know, there are more projects in the pipeline that deviate from the template we have on the Extremew00t server. But if everyone likes small, fast maps, why go breaking the mould?

Sure, people who don't ever play the server, haven't played the previous map packs, have no concept of the gametype, the style , or are anti-instagib snobs , will not like this.

This pack is not for those people, this pack is for all those great people who have played this server consistently for over a year and a half and who enjoy that style of map.

[DeadMeatGF]

I'll butt in (hehe - he said butt!)

I don't think we're critisising the opinions, and it's fair to say that there is at least one project in the offing that does diversify w00t somewhat.
As far as the extreme w00tabulous server goes it is part of the design rules that there must be at least one sub-9 second route back from the flag. It's part of the game.

It's hard to find analogies - especialy in a global forum - but a (fairly poor) one would be: w00t is Basketball (1 attack 1 score) compared to soccer (1 goal per game)
There will be deviations, but to get on there they'll need to be very good - and I can think of one example that I'd like to see on there ;) - but they're going to be the exception.
I'd love to see a new w00t server playing bigger and/or more tactical maps, or without insta- so people could play different styles as the mood takes them, and I think that may well happen as more mappers come on board and more players find the server(s)
Back on topic, as far as the reviews go, you have to, when reviewing this pack, take into account that there are rules to be followed, and they will produce maps that are fast and spammy.
Criticising that is like criticising a basketball player for not passing to an open player who was behind the halfway line - he's not allowed to, even though that's what would have happened in soccer.
Like everyone else, I've gone a bit rambly.
It's 2:30 am here - what's everyone else's excuse ;)

Anyway - whatever's been said, and whether I agree or not, thanks for taking the time to play, and even more thanks for sharing your comments.
Whether they're liked or not, they're certainly food for thought.

[TexasGtar]

You said butt.

:D

I won't go any further with this topic. (some people can not get on that server) I know i've tried lots of times.

But that server is NOT the only one that has woot maps on it. I see wootabulous in it's many incarnations on several servers all the time.

And yes you have the right to play and produce whatever you want. Especially if it works. Increasing a fan base is important. Perhaps that was my point all along. I have seen very few on your server throughout the year. The more the merrier?

I like opinions even when they differ from mine. I just thought that everyone jumped on XYZ for his opinion. And mine too. It's the age old question...Is 2 big boxes full of lava a good map or not? Ha!

And yes i have had fun pl;aying woots on the frag friday server back when it was going. I am sure if i could connect i would have fun playing all of the woot mappage from both packs with friends from here.

And yes...if you find something that works...don't fix it. Especially when you put up the dough. I'm gonna try one more analagy. Yours was pretty good Deadmeat! Basketball=Woot & Soccer =the rest lol not bad.

But i say...when i have a party and invite 10 people....it is only half as fun as when i have a party and invite 20 people. The more people who come to my party ..the more fun it is for everybody.

Don't change the formula that works...but remember that rules are made to be broken. ;) Which we are about to see in the upcoming future. wink wink nudge nudge lol I am hoping that more people will find how much fun it is to step on a woot pad and fly!

[Valis]

Hey Johnny, any luck on the links to smaller screencaps for the news page? :D

[niX]

yeyey!!
/me downloads :beer:

btw that map with that 'default' texture looks pretty cool!

[TexasGtar]

I got the pack yesterday and have played a couple of maps. Will get to more soon.

Default w00t- No player count suggestion. I’d of liked more to the map. It was pretty to look at. Nicely done there. I didn’t like the start where you had no gun and wooted with the pistol. The side routes were not very useful. I’d would have liked to see come connectivity for a second route home other than wooting back across the center. The default weapons were unique but when the weapons were dropped they magically reappeared on the ground with their original skin. Hmm? Typical fast paced woot. Nothing new here. Still. A nice layout for a fast paced woot. Pretty much all on one z axis. A few more levels of actual height would have been nice. There really wasn’t any cover at all that I found. Of course I played a match with 4 on 4 and loque was on the other team. I lost 7 –10 but spent some time exploring. I am playing on 100% game speed to emulate being on the server although I usually can only keep up at about 85-90% speed so my skills are not too good at 100%. Woot rating-- +1 for spammyness +1 for visuals

# Facing w00ts-Interesting playing this in a woot style but for me it wasn’t all that much fun to play. The player starts all behind the buildings was one thing I didn’t like.There could have been some PS’s in the upper towers. And I jumped out a few times and found the gravity to be hard to handle? It seemed odd anyway. The weapons by the sides were not in your line of walking which made you step to the side slowing you down. Thought that they could have been moved a few uu’s to be a straight run. I really didn’t like the ripper instead of an alternate weapon. I kept getting spawned on the ripper side too. Ugg. I think a machine gun would have been better. Out of all of the face woots though I thought this one was the best. I think the only other one I have is ((AYF}} I also didn’t like the step up into the bases. I seemed to get caught there a lot. Not sure why? Also I thought the base entrances were a tiny bit too dark. All in all another fast un defendable woot map. I give it a Woot Rating + .25 for spammyness +.25 for visuals since it is not really all that origional. ;)

I started playing fast and woot 2 but havent gotten my thoughts on it yet.

Thanks for the new maps guys. Hopefully y'all can figure out that aol problem with getting on the server. Even with my 1000 ping i'll have fun pulling the trigger and shooting at air. Ha!

[Hostile]

# Facing w00ts-Interesting playing this in a woot style but for me it wasn’t all that much fun to play. The player starts all behind the buildings was one thing I didn’t like.There could have been some PS’s in the upper towers. And I jumped out a few times and found the gravity to be hard to handle? It seemed odd anyway. The weapons by the sides were not in your line of walking which made you step to the side slowing you down. Thought that they could have been moved a few uu’s to be a straight run. I really didn’t like the ripper instead of an alternate weapon. I kept getting spawned on the ripper side too. Ugg. I think a machine gun would have been better. Out of all of the face woots though I thought this one was the best. I think the only other one I have is ((AYF}} I also didn’t like the step up into the bases. I seemed to get caught there a lot. Not sure why? Also I thought the base entrances were a tiny bit too dark. All in all another fast un defendable woot map. I give it a Woot Rating + .25 for spammyness +.25 for visuals since it is not really all that origional. ;)

In this map to change all the stuff around would suck imo. I didn't care for the other face w00t map near as much as this one. I like how it is real close to the original face. all the stuff your talking of changing is what made face fun to start with imo.
If you have all those complicated routes, then to me it just gets long and boring. there are some very good points to what you are saying, but what you may not like, is the whole reason I do. Just try to keep an open mind, and not try to make it like a regular map when it is supposed to be woot spammy :)

and just to clear UP, I think XYZ, and yourself are :rockon:


On the high ping you have there tex, if you have virus protection on. then there is no way you can improve your connection, as it will scan every bit of data that comes through. even if you have DSL, you will most likely have a high ping. I highly doubt you will get a virus from the server. You should turn off everything not needed. If you leave on to many things it will fight for your connection
If you are serious about fixing your ping, I have all kinds of fixes for Dialup. Just PM me. :D

[TexasGtar]

Until they figure out that aol connection problem i can't get on the server anyway. But sorry.i can't turn off my firewall. My computer cost too much to do that. I am not worried about the server..it's everyone else that will have free access while i am playing that worries me. If you just watch a firewall you can see hack attempts every minute or so. It's not worth it. Money is very tight now ..i couldn't get another computer now if something happened to this one. I'm pretty good at 700-1000 ping. I get at least one kill a night.

;)