View Full Version : UT2K3 would have been better if...
08-20-2002, 12:30 PM
Hey you level designers... I'm just curious. From what we know of UT2K3 thus far (what's been admitted), what will NOT change or NOT be improved over UT that you feel would have helped you build better maps? How the lighting is done, the pre-fab issues, stuff that the editor makes frustrating that is done better by other software... ???
08-20-2002, 12:48 PM
Well it seems all of the "good " level designers will own a copy of 3d studio max and Maya... :hammer:
08-20-2002, 01:15 PM
I'll miss being able to tell who really has talent mapping :D
I'll miss the cool streamline,refined look of certain UT weapons.
I'll miss the large variety of unique maps
I'll miss the unique,refined look of the UT characters
I'll miss the fact that UT seemed a bit more grounded in realism despite the fact that it has "Unreal" in its name
I'll miss the refined, physical look of some of the UT pick-ups
I'll miss the appropriate look of the pulse gun fire balls.
I'll miss being able to create a decent unique level and keep it under 8mb
Don't like the fact that the new game seems to take a turn for arcady style look and gameplay - I think epic is changing this though
Don't like the look of the way the light looks on certain meshes
However the new game seems - if you believe what they say- seems to have improved in the following areas:
-improved particle effects (true from what I've seen)
-improved physics with karma
-A very cool movie system
-Vehicle support (but its limited)
-Will support hi-res textures
-Cool flubber technology - ehehe!
Ok enough joking for now :scratch: :D
08-20-2002, 05:05 PM
I'm going to miss the way the people died in those stupid unmoving positions, while falling from buildings and sliding down stairs. Buti i'm really gonna love the rag dolls!:p
One thing that dosent look that gret about UT2k3 is that you make this stupid nosie when u jump that i'm allready annoyed of from watching videos!:( but the rest of it i love!:rockon:
08-20-2002, 05:07 PM
LOL...i dont own studio max...or maya
so i will have to do it the hard way....damn
and milk under 8 will be my mark...tons of room..
08-20-2002, 05:53 PM
UT2k3 would have been better if....
...it had been released already! :D
100% agreed with MM... :D
08-20-2002, 06:54 PM
I don't see how people can be so sure static meshes will sap the creativity out of community maps when almost all community maps for UT use the standard texture packs, or another persons texture pack. Static meshes in a way replace textures, since instead of slapping a poly down with the details in a texture and calling it a wall, you'll be slapping down a static meshes with the details mostly in the geometry and calling it a wall. Just as you can do creative things with the standard texture packs, I'm sure people will come up with great combinations of the standard static meshes with plenty of originality. And it's not like CSG is gone from UT2003, you can do the layout with brushes, and the general architecture, and just use static meshes like textures/trims for details.
Anyway, back on topic. I think the fact that static meshes are vertex lit is pretty damn lame. Shadows look bad with vertex lighting, I'd like to see lightmapping added to static meshes in the next gen Unreal engine.
I also think that while ogg support is cool for the music, they should have kept the ability to import umx and just updated the format and capabilities. The ability to change the navigation in perspective view!!!! If I could get it to work like Maya, that would be great.
08-20-2002, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by IHopeToGod
I'll miss the appropriate look of the pulse gun fire balls.
lol Yeah.. now its a water gun:eek:
08-21-2002, 01:06 AM
I will miss the gib. the new game I think will be more realistic. I like how a good rocket blast will send chunks bouncing off walls.
08-21-2002, 01:15 AM
Actually I think they kept the gibbing, they just added variety to deaths. Sometimes they'll rag doll, sometimes they'll lose a limb or two, and sometimes they'll gib. It just wouldn't be right if you hit someone in the chest with a rocket and they didn't splatter into bits. :D
08-21-2002, 03:10 AM
Physics will be more realistic but with things like double jump, berserker mode, and pacman style adrenaline pick-ups, and the iconified look of many items - it actually seems less realistic than UT. Perhaps to cater to the under 16 year old crowd....:D
I don't see how people can be so sure static meshes will sap the creativity out of community maps when almost all community maps for UT use the standard texture packs, or another persons texture pack. Static meshes in a way replace textures, since instead of slapping a poly down with the details in a texture and calling it a wall, you'll be slapping down a static meshes with the details mostly in the geometry and calling it a wall. Just as you can do creative things with the standard texture packs
Textures to me is equivalent to paint, whereas prefabs and geometry are equivalent to "structure" like a house. I don't think you can say that paint is as equivalent to a house or equally important. Anyone can create textures through the use of photographs(although its difficult to draw your own) whereas creating their own meshes etc... is much more complex and difficult. Its true that textures are used sometimes to achieve the look of geometry but your mind knows the difference. Geometry/bsp/meshes is the map, while textures complement the map and bring it to life. To me its much better if author's re-use their own prefabs, or that prefabs are used as part of a group project. But if everyone is using the same prefabs even in unique ways, its still obvious and boring. If you look at the photographs/footage for CTF-Maul,Slaughterhouse and November you will see Large-whole pieces of achitecture that were in one map being reused in the others. That's fine for the game but gets boring and dull when every custom map decides to use them.....Its boredom that inevitably decides the longevity of a game...though repetitve dull gameplay is more of a deciding factor in this regard.......:D
08-21-2002, 07:49 AM
Well, look at it this way:
With the prefabs and all now the true mappers will get all the credits as it will be easy to see who has 'it' and who doesn't....
For myself, I think it's good. More ppl will map and get borred by the prefabs sooner or later, and will get a prog like 3dmax to make more original maps. Wich will result in a bigger map community :D
Just give it time....
BTW, With UT every map looks like it is build by DavidM so originality is hard to find most of the time with UT. Everytime a new map comes out and it gets a high score by review sites, it is a DavidM look alike (Industreal theme, with the richrig textures). There is nothing realy wrong with it, but saying UT sux already (when its not even out yet) because the originality of the custom maps will be bad because of the prefabs thing, is a little... you know....:rolleyes:
Anyway, who says that you have to play maps you don't like?:scratch:
08-22-2002, 02:26 AM
I guess my only experience with UT2k3 so far has been the America's Army thing and I didn't do much with that. I was mildly happy with that, certainetly the lighting looks better. If it's up to Q3 standards then I'll be happy. :rolleyes: .
They still used a consistent amount of BSP it seemed, though I couldn't view the actual level content.
I think the only thing I'd really like from UT would be the strength and longevity of the community. Okay, and the raw gore adrenaline machine that has made UT what it is for so many people. If UT2k3 doesn't feel homey enough ( I guess that's the word I'm looking for) then it might not attract as many long time players, but I think either way Epic has the ability to produce a quality product.
08-22-2002, 07:05 AM
Rumour has it :D that about 80%+ (at least in leak 927) of a level in UT2k3 is pure static mesh and terrain and in many cases the light on those meshes particularly low poly meshes was way off. In fact Chrysaor would be spinning out of his chair right now if he had seen this :p . These things are more than likely corrected now.
BTW, With UT every map looks like it is build by DavidM so originality is hard to find most of the time with UT. Everytime a new map comes out and it gets a high score by review sites, it is a DavidM look alike (Industreal theme, with the richrig textures). There is nothing realy wrong with it,
Actually most good maps look nothing like David M clones.
..but saying UT sux already (when its not even out yet) because the originality of the custom maps will be bad because of the prefabs thing, is a little... you know....
No one said UT2k3 sux...If UT2k3 is more popular than UT, its almost a guarantee there will be more "bad maps" but at least the prefabs will look good :D
08-27-2002, 03:55 PM
Back to the question...
1. BSP HOLES
For crying out loud, I saw a demo movie that was linked to on the Playground news homepage a few months ago - the one with the tractor - and it had BSP holes in it. UGH! Yeah so it's 90% mapper error, but to have one in a demo? Just goes to show it'll be just as difficult to handle with the new editor/engine as it is now.
2. COLISSION CYLINDERS
Uh, one collision cylinder is all? From what CliffyB said about headshots being a problem on some models, I take it that basically, players and bots are moving cylinders with a fake mesh and skin attached to look cool. Run into something or get shot, and you're a just cylinder of a certain height and radius to the engine. That's not going to solve botpathing problems, or improve gameplay. It should be cylinders for hand, arm, forearm, head, torso, calf, thigh, foot... right? Please tell me I'm wrong.
3. CUSTOM MUSIC
We'll see if making songs is still easy. I'll bet we have some issues with the new ogg files.
4. TEXTURE WRAPPING
If I had my two cents, I'd incorporate a better system of texture alligment into the editor. Unless they have, which I doubt. Haven't heard.
5. NEED A BETTER SPLASH SCREEN
If this is what I'll be looking at for the next few years, I'm changing it. YEah, it's kinduh cool, but not as good as the UEd2 one with DM-Gothic in wireframe and B&W.
08-27-2002, 10:50 PM
i hope music is easy....wave or mp3 to unreal....too simple..damn..so lets compicate it...yup thats what the public wants.
08-28-2002, 06:34 AM
I am gonna miss unlimited xloc useage.
I think it is a mistake to put a limit on translocator usage. The translocator is one of the best things about UT.
08-28-2002, 12:31 PM
Maybe someone could write a simple mod that allows you to use it as much as you want...
08-28-2002, 03:04 PM
I hate trans-lockers that bounce all over the place and then telefrag you... It's lame I think.... It's just showing off how lame you really are....
What I really gonna miss about UT is theme song you hear when you browes (is that spelled right???:scratch: ) for online games. It isn't a great tune, but when you hear it, you know what time it is! I mean, every time I played Q3 (pardon my French:D), I realy missed a theme song when the game starts....
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