It's time to reign in Gunner666

[_Whisper_]

Now, we all know that Gunner666 has a hot temper, and is in the habit of using admin rights arbitrarily. This is not in question.

However, arbitrary doesn't even begin to describe kicking the wrong player without bothering to ascertain what's going on.

1. Either the redeemer is fair game, or it's not. If you're going to start kicking people for using it, make sure the policy regarding what constitutes "excessive" use is clear, and that all those responsible for enforcing it agree on that definition, and thus are enforcing the same thing.

2. If you're going to ignore #1, and suddenly start kicking players for using it at all, make sure you say something to that effect, so that players will know that some hothead, who has ill-advisedly been given admin privileges, has suddenly changed the rules.

3. If you're going to ignore #1, and #2, make sure you kick the player who actually used the redeemer in question.

And that's pretty much all I have to say about that.

[Gunner666]

Whisper you can make all the accusions you like. The fact of the matter is is that I gave you several warmings to not use the deemer before i kicked you and i kicked you two times to get your attention. There will be no excessive deemer usage on the server as it constitutes excessive behaviour. If you would have used the deemer again, I would have been forced to bann you. And I would not have wanted to do that. You werent the only one who i had to kick just to get there attention.

Please read the MOTD on the Catalyst CTF Demo Server. And if you like, you can go to Catalyst rules and regulations post under the Catalyst General Discusson. There, you will find exactly the rules and regs set forth for all catalyst servers.

Gunner666

[Nitestalker]

:blah: :blah: :blah: :a_Pawn: :blito:

[overrandom]

Whoa whoa whoa! Kicking people off the server for using the Redeemer? Silly.

[CtrlAltDestroy]

It takes AAAGES to respawn so it's a controllable item like the 100a. :moreconf: It's certainly not overpowered enough to kick someone off the server for using it.

But if you really don't want it to be used, use the No Superweapons mutator instead of kicking/banning people. :rolleyes:

[Kingster]

OR, this is a discussion in the Catalyst area, about their Demo server. Things work a bit differently in the Demo server world, since there are a lot of things that cannot be controlled as the demo server comes with very limited functionality.

That being said, before you call something silly, you should read their rules, which are quite plainly posted.

[overrandom]

It says "Excessive use of the redeemer." That's acceptable.
But this seems like "banning on the spot" (hard to see through all of this fog, so maybe I'm wrong)

[JoystickMonkey]

the demo doesn't have the "No Superweapons" Mutator? that stinks

[.Magus]

the demo doesn't have the "No Superweapons" Mutator? that stinks
Gee, thanks Atari. o.O


But anyways, does anyone in the community have any suggestions for the excessive rule? Personally I believe that rule to be very much vague and it creates a lot of problems in the first place.

-M

[overrandom]

I say, BATTLE ON ...

I mean, if It respawned every 5 seconds and it was a one on one match, then there should be an excessive rule.

No offense to anyone, but if someone is managing to get the redeemer every time it respawns it either means that player is very good or no one is paying attention. :moreconf: And, if the player is still very good, that does not mean (at all) to ban him. That's just silly. I mean, if we all got banned for being very good, I wouldn't be the only one playing bots all the time ;)

[_Whisper_]

Whisper you can make all the accusions you like. The fact of the matter is is that I gave you several warmings to not use the deemer before i kicked you and i kicked you two times

You're confused.

1. I've only ever been kicked once.
2. I had just logged on about five minutes previously.
3. I hadn't fired a redeemer.

Who did you have me confused with?

[Gunner666]

Whisper im not confused and if I was confused I would not be admin/WebAdmin of 12 servers. So that being said and your trying to disrespect me by coming on to these forums making false accusations. I suggest you do not come onto these forums and expect justice when your making false accusations and at the same time bashing admins(me). Your attitude and false accusations will not get you anywhere.


Like I said before Whisper, I had givin you several warnings and you ignored them. And I also gave you the necessary information to look up so you are aware of the rules and regualtions set forth for all Catalyst servers. You put yourself in this situation.

I request this thread be closed as to the fact that this conversation and determination of Whisper being kicked for not following the rules of the Catalyst CTF server is finished.


Gunner666

[_Whisper_]

Whisper im not confused and if I was confused I would not be admin/WebAdmin of 12 servers.

So you never get confused? Never make a mistake? At all? Ever?

Must be nice. I make mistakes all the time. However, this time, I think you're the one making it.

your trying to disrespect me by coming on to these forums making false accusations.

A word to the wise. Respect is earned, not demanded. If you are troubled by people disrespecting you, acting in a way that commands their respect will get one better results than complaining of the lack.

Very well, instead of this pointless bickering, I have an alternative suggestion.

1. You have a look at the server logs, and remind me of just what date and time I was kicked.

2. I'll have a look at my UT stats, and see if I was using the redeemer at all at the time, for I do not remember doing so. (I do specifically remember that I did NOT fire the redeemer you kicked me after. I specifically remember killing the fellow steering it, with a flak cannon.).

3. If I am mistaken (I don't think I am), I will apologize. If you are mistaken, you will apologize.

Sound fair?

-Whisper

[Gunner666]

Whisper I dont need your respect nor am I asking for it. The point is is that you failed to heed my warnings. so you got kicked. Stop whinning about it and go and play some UT. Before you do, You should go take a look at the rules and reg that pertain to all Catalyst servers.





Gunner666

[overrandom]

Hold up, Gunner. He's asking for proof.

Very well, instead of this pointless bickering, I have an alternative suggestion.

1. You have a look at the server logs, and remind me of just what date and time I was kicked.

[Valis]

HuntrCkr is the one who has access to server logs, none of the other admins do (to my knowledge), so any comparison would have to be done by him. Also, if you've ever looked at server logs, they're not exactly clear & straightforward (there's a lot to look through for each game). Especially when you're sort of fishing around. Also, since the server has spontaniously rebooted once or twice lately there's a possibility the server logs aren't there (they get deleted every few days anyway iirc).

Anyway, we have 3 things going on in this thread. What constitutes fair use of the redeemer and how should it be worded to clearly convey it to the users of catalyst? Is it indeed time to 'reign in' Gunner666? And is Whisper delightfully guilty or absolutely innocent (and yet another martyr in the deemer confusion)?

HOWEVER, since this thread is from Whisper to Gunner about a specific instane, I think it's probably best to address the redeemer issue separately: I will edit this line and add the link to the thread here.

Now, HuntrCkr has the last word in regards to Catalyst servers but I will say this. Admins aren't perfect, nor are players. Admins sometimes kick people who may not have deserved it for a variety of reasons. For example because they're not paying close enough attention (what the admins want to PLAY and not do full time adminning? omg!).

Now perhaps Gunner DID purposefully kick Whisper. Perhaps Whisper is incorrect here and really DID deserve it. Perhaps not. Either way I would remind you that it was ONLY a kick, not a ban and while there *might* be proof available to pin down exactly who is guilty & who is innocent, there are also easier ways to resolve our differences. A "kick" is not a "ban".

[HuntrCker]

HuntrCkr is the one who has access to server logs, none of the other admins do (to my knowledge), so any comparison would have to be done by him. Also, if you've ever looked at server logs, they're not exactly clear & straightforward (there's a lot to look through for each game)...The server logs only show the "Come and Go" of players with GUIDs and IPs. In certain instances of cheating (Epic's Master Server does update files from time to time even on demo servers), the logs depict suspicious activities denoting such. To the point, the server does not present in its logs redeemer usage. However, Epic's UT2004 Stats website does: http://ut2004stats.epicgames.com/matchstats.php?match=24035184

Demo servers have default mod/mut capabilities only. Superweapons (i.e., the redeemer) can not be disabled on demo servers. With that in mind, the Admins at CATALYST were in consensus of curbing the excessive behavior of some players utilizing the redeemer - some resorting to cheap hiding tricks to nuke the EFC right before capping (actually hiding inside the EFC base), and others just grabbing and using the redeemer exclusively. This issue is still under debate amongst the Admins. Do we offer strict, quantitative redeemer use limits? Or try to ban the redeemer outright with strict enforcement? Because the previous status of unlimited redeemer usage tended to clear out servers in a hurry - who wants to play in a server where you get nuked every time you grab/cap the flag? The CATALYST CTF server is a demo server after all and caters to the noobs/regulars alike.

To date, the Admins have felt that the current limited redeemer use policy and its administration have been effective in curbing its abuse. On the flipside, several players have notified us of their concerns as to the enforcement of the redeemer policy. Please refer to the Redeemer Thread for detailed postings: http://www.unrealplayground.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=491007

[JoystickMonkey]

Fair enough... Edited.

[Spiffness]

This is the Catalyst sub forum. UPers should just stay out of it in my opinon. It's not our place to tell them how to run their server, their members, or anything really. Why contribute to a thread like this unless your involved?

It's their business. Carry on.

[.Magus]

We DO however, appreciate hearing suggestions or other ways to improve the server itself. Even if they are shot down. Its an active way to create a better environment.

-M

[TexasGtar]

I have been reading and following along and i think even though i may have an opinion and you said it's okay to add them.....i think i agree with Spiffness and will stay out. I am sure those parties involved can handle something like this.


After there is lots more important stuff out there to worry about. Like what i might have for dinner. Hmmmm?

[NIGHTX]

Heh demmer rule pwns