Ageia PhysX PPU

[JoystickMonkey]

So what does everyone think about the new physics processing unit that Ageia is putting out? With the large amount of support that Epic is giving them, I'm tempted to think that it's not just a fad.
On the other hand, I'm probably not going to get one unless I hear really good things.
From what I've read, it will be in the $200~$300 price range and is supposed to exponentially increase the physics capabilities of a machine.

www.ageia.com/products/physx.html

http://www.gdhardware.com/interviews/agiea/001.htm

[BIG-MICK]

If it gets the support in the next gen games over the next few years
I for one will get one ;)

[elwood]

It requires the game you're using it with to use the Ageia Physics Engine in there game, so there's no chance of it supporting old games that don't use it. Epic has pledged support, and I believe a few other game studios are very interested also, so it has serious potential. Honestly, I think it'll get some decent support, but whether its worth $200-$300 is up to you, depending on how pretty you want your games to look. I think its one of those things thats mostly going to appear in the serious high-end gaming rigs, but I don't think its gonna drop flat on its face.

[Lunarbunny]

I've been looking at them, too, but I don't think I'll buy one until there's a game I want that will at least get a major boost by having the PhysX PPU.

[elwood]

Well, apparently the boost they're saying it gives is not more accurate physics, but it allows many more physics objects simultaneously. When I first read the press releases about it over the summer, they were saying that the current common hardware configuration on games like HL2 will allow for maybe 10 physics objects at once, but having this addon card could put that in the hundreds. I'm not sure how noticable it'd be, but you could have a real computerized billiards game done realtime. I don't think it'd make much difference for the current generation of games that it'd support, but it would allow developers to do some neat new things for the next generation.

[Spiff]

i think it would be a good idea to have them inbuilt to certain motherboards like with soundcards.

Personaly i cant see most developers as creative enough to use physics properly in a game beyond simply looking impressive, having them as a major part of the gameplay is something else. Could be down to the limitations of current systems i guess..

What would be nice is a war game where buildings collapse realisticaly.. like red faction but actually fun.

On the other hand theyd have to incorporate it in a way that caters for lower end systems too, which would be fare more difficult than with sound or graphics, its not like they could just turn down the number of 'physics objects' if they formed a crucial part of a puzzle or something.


Tech demos will be fun though

[Spiffness]

I agree with lil' spiff. I'd be hard pressed to actually BUY one of these unless they made AMAZING improvments to a game. And how would that work anyway? Single player games, a building collapses like a stack of cups if you dont have one, amazing if you do? That works, i guess. But what about MP? No cool physics because the people without the cards couldnt see it and that would make a unbalanced game enviroment?

Spiffs right, onto the MB these cards should go. They should be integrated into the chipset on future Intels and AMD's. I'd guess that they will be in matter of years.

[elwood]

Yeah, depending on how popular they get. At first, I think they'll be in the realm of high-end gaming machines, and then once the masses start seeing some impressive gameplay videos, you could see them integrated into motherboards. The only problem is, motherboard real estate is kind of scarce. You've got to fit the processor on, all of its requisite hardware (capacitors and whatnot), all the wiring, and the memory for the PPU. This certainly wouldn't fly in any of the smaller form factors. I think the best we can hope for is that the addon PPU becomes so popular to have that its a de-facto purchase when you get a new computer. If hardware manufacturers start offering it as an option on new PC's, I think we can assume that its hit the mainstream.

[JoystickMonkey]

I think you guys have a lot of sound ideas... Enough motherboards have GPU's on them that it's feasable to have a PPU on it instead. As this will be a high-end piece of equipment for some time to come, it's already understood that an on-board GPU is kind of pointless for gamers who would want a PPU on their motherboard in the first place.

In terms of multiplayer online gaming, a lot of what you see going on on your computer screen is not what's really going on in the actual game. Unreal uses a method of online interworking called replication. Basically, the hard rules of the game and the "real" scenario only exists on the server, and the server sends out packets of info out to the client computers so they can re-create the actual scenario. The client-side computers fill in a lot of blanks, like detailed emitters, and they also extrapolate what's going on. When a rocket is travelling, the client knows it will travel straight until it hits something stationary or in the case that it hits another player, and will then display that on the client screen without instruction from the server. In a heavy lag situation, you can sometimes see a rocket travel through a player, and then see disappear and explode on that player a split second later. Or, the rocket could look like it missed the player completely, only to register as a hit. Complex physics such as wall destruction would most probably have to be handled by replication as well, and a crumbling building would at first look normal to a physX and non-physX machine. Then, what would most likely happen is that the non-physX machine would slow down a bit, and/or simply have very unreliable data until another server packet with info on the building pieces synchs up the weaker machine. The physX machine would have a much easier time keeping tabs extrapolating how the pieces fall, and you would notice fewer if any physics inconsistencies when an update packet comes from the server. Either way, it will be an interesting feat to see servers keep up with the ever-growing amount of information needed to be sent back and forth.

In terms of how the PPU would help, I will give an example of something I saw earlier today. I was watching a friend play Black & White 2, and he smited some 300 people with a meteor shower. As all of these dead bodies went sailing through the air, my computer slowed down to a nice, smooth 3 updates per second. The framerate stayed acceptable, but the bodies flying through the air slowed way way down. A physics chip would have handled a situation like this with ease.

So, I think that the PPU will greatly improve the playability of single-player games, and also multiplayer games if the client/server packet transfer is handled skillfully. Whether or not it's worth the $200~$300 price tag, however, is still up in the air.

[Spiffness]

Thanks for the crash course.

[JoystickMonkey]

;) :p

[Kel]

Well, currently, all physics calculations are done by the CPU
If a game supports the PPU, that's less load on the CPU and therefore more can be done

[Tachyon]

My 7800 GTX beats you Ageus Physics PPU.

[Lunarbunny]

My 7800 GTX beats you Ageus Physics PPU.
Um...they do 2 different things. Therefore, they can't "beat" each other.
7800GTX = GPU (Graphics Processing Unit), the main processor on the card.
Ageia PhysX = PPU (Physics Processing Unit), Ageia's new idea to offload physics (think HL2 gravity gun and all of the objects flying around) from the CPU to yet another processor.

[killedbycrimson]

any chance of seeing one of these thingo's?

[JoystickMonkey]

I've seen a pic of a prototype... just a bunch of caps and chips.
I think ageia's website has some videos, but my current house is cursed with dialup and I haven't seen them.

[Tachyon]

Um...they do 2 different things. Therefore, they can't "beat" each other.
7800GTX = GPU (Graphics Processing Unit), the main processor on the card.
Ageia PhysX = PPU (Physics Processing Unit), Ageia's new idea to offload physics (think HL2 gravity gun and all of the objects flying around) from the CPU to yet another processor.


I know dude Im just kidding around.

[Lunarbunny]

I know dude Im just kidding around.
Ah. Probably should have followed it with !!!1!!1!1 then :D.

[Tachyon]

Ah. Probably should have followed it with !!!1!!1!1 then :D.


Yeah lol.