How's the reviewing?

[Freakish]

We've recently started map reviews and we hope you're finding them useful. Please let us know what you think here so that we can improve and develop this into one of the most useful review sites for UT.



And, thanks Squirrel, it was your comment calling the aron review 'decent' that got me thinking. So..you definitely need to respond here! ;)

So..let the feedback begin..

[Squirrelinabox]

Yeah, to add to what Freakish is saying (and to give a mappers perspective) it DOES help when you guys make comments. Whether it is for the reviews, for beta maps, for whatever, you guys need to give feedback. I don't know if most of you are afraid of hurting peoples feelings by saying you hate a map or a review, or what, but please comment on stuff. I think it was freakish who commented on boomerang at the nali city forums and said I should put it up here when I was done. Well guess what? I did. I never heard of this place until then, now I only play here and make all my maps so that they will play well on this server. I took his (or at least I think it was his) comments to heart. Other people have said what sucks about my maps, I do take them serious, especially in beta phases. Freakish, hort, and whoever else is involved in these reviews are doing something pretty new here and all the comments help. Sometimes a reviewer will forget something, or not look at a map in a certain way, that is why the more people who comment the better. It would even be great (but don't know if this is something that will happen) if there was enough support so that regs can give their own score of the reviewed maps, like many other review sites do out there. Knowing what a good player thinks of your map, what he/she thinks sucks or works is a big help when designing the next map. SquirrelRun was a huge advance from boomerang, at least I think so, and it was mostly do to comments people made about boomerang, and about the beta versions of squirrelRun. So please, damnit, say your opinions on stuff. Help everyone out and post what you think instead of always saying, this maps sucks, or why do people vote for this. Actually say why something doesn't work! Bah, once again, my post is too long, so I end it.................. NOW.

[HortonsWho]

All good feedback. Keep it coming!

Many exciting things happening and YOUR feedback is important.

Thanks!

[IHopeToGod]

So far all the reviews suck! :eek: . Hope that helps.

...............


By the way one reason for having a strict criteria for judging maps is to prevent opinions from being way too subjective. Reviewing is subjective for the most part but you have to try and make it objective(scientific) as possible. Saying you hate a map is pretty redundant since if u hate Low Gravity maps then you would probably rate all Low Grav maps low, but if u have a formula, then even maps that u dislike could come out looking good. There are certain hallmarks that all good maps posess. They are not sufficient for making a map great but they are certainly necessary. If a reviewing process can isolate these things then the process is off to a good start. Isolating these hallmarks may lead to the review schema evolving over time.

Its never too hard to spot a suspect review that goes off on a tangent and is based on the reviewer's own motives....so having a clearly defined schema should help avoid such nonsense...
;)

[Freakish]

we gots da schema..
;)

[MadMikey]

Thanks Squirrel. The review process is growing all the time. I think we'll all be surprised in 8 days, when the new site is released. w00t!

[IHopeToGod]

By the way I would not be surprised if the review schema for UT maps was quite a bit different from UnrealTournament2003 maps......in fact it might have to be for various reason which I won't bother to list now............ :)

[Squirrelinabox]

Sounds good Mikey! I was wondering if there is anything posted anywhere on this "new site". I really don't know about it except that I am assuming unreal2ctf.com is what you are talking about, but what is it going to be about/have etc? Maybe I missed a forum that talks about this or something if so just point me to it. Is it going to be dealing with unrealtournament 2003 primarily or what? Since this isn't the right section to post all these questions, let me know where :)

[HortonsWho]

You haven't missed anything. The CIA and FBI are just keeping it under lock and key for just **a little** while longer... ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

[Kingster]

Well, I don't really have a comment on the reviews as far as content goes - I think that the content in them has been great and really dead on so far. I do have a comment about layout though...

I think that the way you have it laid out right now is useful, but I think that you are almost forcing a person to read the entire review before coming to your conclusion. I would think that the "customer" may be better served by swapping them around a bit. That way, the person that wants to grab a map that got a decent review quick can, and the person that wants to read the entire review prior to DL'ing can.

I am posting one of your reviews in the layout that I think would be most helpful to everyone, from the player who doesn't care about the technical, to the mapper who wants the fine points. I'm not sure how it will be laid out on the new site, but maybe three pages would be better - 1. Summary, 2. Gameplay, 3. Design. That way the reader can make sure that he gets exactly what he wants, not having the entire review force fed to him just to get to the download section.

One last thing... Some pics (thumbnails that are clickable to fullsize) would be nice - I know they take space... But they say a picture is worth a thousand words... Hehhehehhe.

Anyway... Here ya go... AUGH!! It's too long!! Dammit. I am trimming some of the review words out.... they will be replaced by a (...)

CTF-ACAMv11 REVIEWED

Designer: Andy 'Chrysaor' Monroe
Release Date: 03/07/2002
File size: 1.23 Mb zipped/3.93 Mb unzipped
Reviewed by IHopeToGodThatsMilk & Freakish

Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to the Jungle - Mayan style!

Overview
Set in an old Mayan temple dedicated to a god of Water, ACAMv11 is a nicely done small version of the 'Facing Bases' concept. It consists of symmetrical temples on opposite ends of a shallow valley that is enclosed (and cleaved) by rocky ridges.

Summary
This map is very well done and has great replay value. Be prepared for some bloody and extremely fun games on this map. Though maybe a bit dark for Voodoo users, the atmosphere of the map just adds to the fun and really makes this a map worth your download.

Overall Score: 80/100

Download it!! (http://www.stealthdp.com/download.php?id=416)

Take a look at it here!! (http://www.unreal2ctf.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=21363)

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Gameplay

Enjoyment
Though Chrysaor only suggests 6-12 players, the map is great fun with up to 20 players. I consistently enjoy playing this map again and again; matches are usually intense and difficult to dominate. The flag rooms are a little too easy to defend (minigun and shock rifle both available near flag), but this doesn't often detract from the game.
Score: 80/100

Flow
Very well done. I especially (...)whose sides can easily hold up a careless flag carrier.
Score: 80/100

Technical Playability (FPS, etc.)
Great. Polys are usually below 200 (a few places in flag rooms might hit 250). Most machines should be able to run this just fine.
Score: 90/100

Bot Support
Pretty good. As bots, they're extremely predictable (they *always* defend (...)the minigun and sometimes run some nice offensives.
Score: 65/100

Item Placement
All weapons are there though the redeemer is not (which is good considering the map size). The Udamage is easily found and the shield belt has great placement on a plank in a nice little shed set into the ridge that divides the valley. Health and ammo are both strategically placed around the map so that one never has to go far for a refill. A map with plenty of ammo is a map with plenty of good action.
Score: 80/100

Gameplay overall score: 79/100

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Environment

Theme
Theme of the map is well executed. According to the readme file that came with the map "CTF-ACAM is an old Mayan temple set in the lower Yucatan in what was once Belize..." and this level convincingly portrays what the author describes. The 'Ancient' texture set (...)was executed adds dramatically to the ambience of this level.(See Lighting section for more details). Apart from minor flaws detracting from the believability of level, the theme is well done and its safe to say that this is an engrossing level with a lot of atmosphere.
Score: 85/100

Architecture
While the architecture is not very complex it is not simple either. The author makes good use of arched hallways and door ways, and it appears there's some vertex editing and 2-D editor work going on here. (...)in the outskirts of the terrain perimeter on 2 occasions while using the translocator, but this invisible wall is hard to locate. Overall nicely done.
Score: 78/100

Texturing
Texturing appears to be well done. I did not notice any significant misalignments. And if there were any perhaps they were hidden by the darkness. (...)a few occasions players would use the upper elevations as camping spots, and could see directly into the skybox.
Score: 80/100

Lighting
Light radius from various sources appeared to be controlled and this has a nice effect having dark areas in the right spots and well lit areas in (...)players and objects can become almost completely obscured from the darkness. Those of us with voodoo3 video cards will have to increase the screen brightness.
Score: 80/100

Sound Effects (SFX)
The sound in this level plays a huge part in contributing to the atmosphere. The crackling fire, running water, and the sound of various creatures was certainly a nice touch. In some places the sound was a bit overbearing, and slightly annoying but many may not notice this if they play with the music on. In a few cases the sound seemed to travel a bit too far. You can stand at the top of one of the cliffs and hear quite loudly what sounds to be like running water. But overall the sound fits the setting.
Score 80/100

Environment overall score: 80.85/100

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Summary

This map is very well done and has great replay value. Be prepared for some bloody and extremely fun games on this map. Though maybe a bit dark for Voodoo users, the atmosphere of the map just adds to the fun and really makes this a map worth your download.

Overall Score: 80/100

Download it!! (http://www.stealthdp.com/download.php?id=416)

Take a look at it here!! (http://www.unreal2ctf.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=21363)

[IHopeToGod]

There are 4 types of people willing to read through an entire review. 1)Mappers 2)people concerned about map filesize. 3)People who like to compare maps 4)People who are really interested in the map. But most people just want to know the parts that they are interested in right away.....And this is why a thorough review is needed sometimes(sounds silly but read on......)-->

The way I might organize it is to have a link to each of the sections at the beggining with the score beside each link. That way anyone can jump to what they are looking for right away. And will get a decent explanation of that section.

Example:

Gameplay 80/100 ...............Design 80/100
Architechture 70/100...........Lighting 70/100
Sound Fx 70/100
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Begin Review here....





[edit] The links would be achor links so u could have the entire review still on one page to save space and keep things more organized.

[Squirrelinabox]

Cool, thanks for the info, or lack therof, Mikey. Freakish brought to my attention that I really didn't say what was good or bad about the reviews so far, so I guess I will do that now :)

1- I have heard about the "weight" of the certain categories but I don't know what it is. Is there somewhere that says which categories get more weight than others? Or are they all equal? I would want the Gameplay part a little more weighted than the environment part probably, since how fun it is is much more important that how good it looks. I would also have item placement worth a lot less towards the gameplay score than lets say enjoyment. Enjoyment should be worth a lot, it is the essential part of any map. If a map looks ****ty and plays well, I will still probably like it. If it looks good (aron) but plays bad, I won't like it at all.

2- I like the first one line comment and then the overview. When Freakish says "You say pretty; I say frustrating" on a map I have played then I will know right away what mindset he is taking towards a map, and if it is similar to my perspective. The Overview is good to show a general background to the map to let readers know if they want to know more or not. I would like to see a screenshot at the beginning though to remind a reader what map it is, since usually a person doesn't want to look it up.

3- Don't know if this is worth it or not but I would like to see screenshots describing certain sections. If the review is mostly for people who have played the map then it isn't a big deal, but if people haven't played the map then a screenshot showing the boxes blocking the entrance to Aron's flags would help show what Freakish means when he says the flagcarrier will have a hard time.

4- Something I don't think I have seen is a reviewer who puts suggestions in the review. Yeah reviewers usually say this made flow bad or this bot got stuck, but it would probably be cool to add a suggestion section at the bottom. For instance, Freakish says the goo gun should be outside the base in the item placement section, it may be a good idea to put that and others under a suggestion section. It would helps the author when Freakish says the flag room is too hard to get in and out of, and a good mapper will know what to do usually, but perhaps have a suggestion section to say that there should be an underwater entrance/exit that goes straight to the flag room or a drop down entrance that boots will be needed to escape out of, or just add one or more regular entrances. I know reviews usually have suggestions in them, but there should be a few more and in a section to themselves perhaps.

Well this is probably getting about as long as it can get so I better stop for now. This is the basics I see so far. We need more people giving their feedback though, my opinions could be way off the norm so tell us all what YOU think.

[Squirrelinabox]

Oops I meant thanks Horton for the info on the new site, not mikey, I hate mikey, hate hate hate, oh wait don't say that :)

[MadMikey]

Sorry bout that Squirrel. We have been keeping a tight lid on the new site for awhile. With the forums sitting on the unreal2ctf.com domain, there were some clues.

However, with the recent changes in multiplayer for Unreal 2, we've had to change some things.

Here's the official announcment:

http://www.unreal2ctf.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1985

[Squirrelinabox]

Cool, thanks MIkey. Don't hate you as much now :)