Hockey Refs... getting better or worse?

[Airlea]

Well in the game of hockey we all know that there are those bogus shots and jabs that never get called; we know that there are penalties which aren't called.

Last night with the Canucks vs Avs, Nasland (Nuckies) was taken down by Moore (avs) and ended up with a concussion. In my opinion, it wasn't a clean hit and something should have been called. Now, it's only going to get worse... the Canucks have pretty much set the war path for Moore and I'm sure these two teams are going to get into some scraps.

So what does that say about the refs of the game? Are they getting worse with their calls? or better?

Here's the news article on Nasland:

"Naslund concussed, out at least a week; NHL takes no action

Vancouver Canucks' Markus Naslund is tended to after he collided with Colorado Avalanche's Steve Moore on Monday. (AP/Maria J. Avila)-->
VANCOUVER (CP) - Vancouver Canucks captain Markus Naslund will be sidelined for at least one week with a concussion following a bodycheck that general manager Brian Burke called a cheap shot by a marginal player and had local radio talk show lines burning Tuesday.

Despite the local outrage, the NHL said it would take no action against Colorado Avalanche rookie Steve Moore who clobbered Naslund during the second period of the Canucks 1-0 win Monday night in Denver. No penalty was called on the play.

Naslund, the NHL's leading scorer with 30 goals and 38 assists in 59 games, spent the night in hospital in Denver with his first-ever concussion. He needed 13 stitches to close cuts on his forehead and nose.

He was scheduled to return home Tuesday night and officials say he will be out of the lineup for at least one week and possibly two.

Naslund was left crumpled on the ice, blood pouring from a cut, after being run over by Moore.

The Canucks captain told radio station CKNW he has a dull headache, a nasty lump and 10 stitches on his forehead, and another three stitches across the bridge of his nose.

"I have a headache, It's not real painful but it's a dull headache I've had all night and today," he said. "No nausea, I haven't had a tough time standing up or walking around so it's been good apart from the headaches. I feel pretty good otherwise, I feel pretty clear.

"I didn't remember the hit and I didn't remember getting into the locker room and after that it started to clear up."

Naslund also said it was his first concussion.

"According to the doctors and stuff the first time around I think it clears up a a lot quicker and everything seemed okay," he said. "We're going to be cautious but I'm positive about coming back fairly soon."

"I think it's a marginal player going after a superstar with a head- hunting hit," Burke seethed. "I thought it was a cheap shot."

On the play, Naslund was stretching for a loose puck and Moore swerved into him at high speed, striking him with his shoulder and arm. Some television replays indicated Moore might have hit Naslund with his elbow.

Burke said it's irrelevant whether Moore used his elbow or not.

"Whether there's an elbow or not, you have a player that is going down and this player (Moore) dropped his shoulder down and went right at this head," said Burke.

Moore, who has three goals and five assists in 46 games, said he was simply finishing his check.

"I guess it ended up being Naslund and they weren't too happy with that," he told both the Denver Post and Rocky Mountain News. "But I'm certainly not looking to hurt him.

"(It was) just a clean bodycheck with the shoulder."

Canucks coach Marc Crawford disagreed.

"That was a cheap shot by a young kid on a captain, the leading scorer in the league, and we get no call," Crawford fumed in a post-game interview. "That is ridiculous. How does that happen?

"Why is there no respect from those referees for the leading scorer in the league? I do not understand that for the life of me. I don't care if they fine me."

Burke doubted if Crawford's outburst would result in the league taking money out of the coach's pocket.

"I don't think anything he said was fineable but if the league sees it differently, that's fine with us," said Burke.

The Canucks have recalled Fedor Fedorov from the AHL's Manitoba Moose. In 32 games with the Moose Fedorov has 19 goals and 13 assists.

Callers to Vancouver radio sports programs were incensed no penalty was called on the play and angry the league didn't take some action.

"Why don't we just go out head-hunting every team?" asked one caller to the Team 1040. "Why don't we go after their guys?"

After the game, some of the Canuck players were already looking forward to retaliation against Moore when the Canucks play the Avalanche against March 3 in Denver.

"Pledging retaliation isn't something the league needs," Burke warned.

Colorado coach Tony Granato said he watched a replay of the hit and Moore didn't do anything illegal.

"He hit him with his shoulder," Granato said. "It's very unfortunate when someone gets hurt and leaves the game, especially a player like (Naslund), but it's hockey."

Denver Post columnist Mark Kiszla was more critical.

"The league treats its stars like pieces of meat," Kiszla wrote.

"So why should we be surprised when Vancouver's Markus Naslund . . . was knocked to his hands and knees Monday night, unable to rise after a dangerous hit by Colorado foe Steve Moore and the referees all turned blind?

"The injustice of it should anger anybody who loves the speed and skill of this game."

There is no love lost between the Canucks and Avs, but Burke doubted history had anything to do with Moore's hit.

"This kid wasn't part of any history," Burke said. "This was a chance to take out a star player and he took it."

~Airlea~ :tsk:

[Zinia]

Waa Waa Waa "Canucks" Waa Waa Waa "Vancouver" Waa Waa Waa "Naslund".

Yup. Refs are doing a great job. :p

[freshie]

NHL needs to start calling hooking. From Youth Hockey I remember if I wrapped my stick around someone, I'd get two minutes in the penalty box. Same does not apply in the NHL.

[teppic]

i watched a game the other night and all i can say is this game is very violent and the referees just dont seem to care really at all. i saw some guy take his stick to another when he was chasing him but that didnt seem to matter to the refs...

anyway, i heard that teams are actualy asked to start fights in an attempt to boost the popularity of the sport...tbh i dont really enjoy watching fighting at all, apart from maybe proper boxing :confused:

[StealthDP]

NHL needs to start calling hooking. From Youth Hockey I remember if I wrapped my stick around someone, I'd get two minutes in the penalty box. Same does not apply in the NHL.


As long as you do not stop your forward momentum, it is not a hook. They are a bit more restrictive in youth hockey...

[freshie]

As long as you do not stop your forward momentum, it is not a hook. They are a bit more restrictive in youth hockey...

I see. I just personally think the game would open up a bit if they didn't allow players to hang all over each other with their sticks.

[Airlea]

I totally understand that hockey is a game that's going to have some rough hits--it's a sports game that's VERY intense.

What bothers me is the growing level of crap thats showing up on ice. With this Nasland hit, the Canucks are literally going to be gunning for the Av's. Ok.. payback is understandable but what if something worse happens in result from that payback? Something should have been done with that hit.

I could definately see coaches or team owners asking their players to be a little more intense or brutal etc because fans like that kind of stuff; they want to see a fight on ice. If you want to see a good fight, go watch a boxing game!! This is hockey! I'm starting to feel like hockey is more and more becoming like a soap opera :p

My younger brother had his elbow broken from a cross check when he was playing hockey. I can't remember what the other player got, but I swear that the rest of the game, his whole team was in the penalty box because they were looking for payback. It was actually quite amusing to look down on their bench and see only a few players there--most of them were conversing in the penalty box. :p

I think the level of calls the refs are doing are going downhill. My input. =P

~Airlea~

[Infide]

Speaking of fighting, know anything about the minor hockey leagues in Canada? Apparently, all they do is fight.

Refs have started calling more interference penalties which helps the game a little bit. The biggest problem is playing style. Watch Dallas and New Jersey play a game. OMG I want to poke my eye out with a sharp stick. They are two defensive, clog the neutral zone, block all passing lanes, clubs and they are B O R I NG to watch.

Now watch the Avs and the Red Wings or the Avs and the LA Kings; wild open games with lots of scoring chances on both sides of the ice. Very fun and exciting to watch.

Unfortunately, as long as teams like Dallas and New Jersey continue to do well you will continue to see slow games with no flow, people hanging on each other playing man to man.

[Infide]

Oh and Vancouver and Colorado have always had a weird kinda rivalry. Not as bad as Detroit but I've seen some very violent games between the two.

[Nitestalker]

I have been complaining about the refs for years, but he damn TV never listens to me. I never saw the hit, but too bad Naslund is a good player that the league needs(on the other hand if it was bertuzzi :moon: ) usually the league doesn't miss giving out suspensions although the they do miss giving out the right punishment. Check this site out!http://www.nhlofficials.com/



Now watch the Avs and the Red Wings or the Avs and the LA Kings; wild open games with lots of scoring chances on both sides of the ice. Very fun and exciting to watch.

Unfortunately, as long as teams like Dallas and New Jersey continue to do well you will continue to see slow games with no flow, people hanging on each other playing man to man.

The Wings and the Avs do, and have played a version of the infamous TRAP, but it is better when you have a team with skill players that can take advantage of the other team.

[Angel_of_Death]

i realize that ur talking about hockey refs but what about football refs do u think they have got better or worse

because i personally they suck now and i just want to know if u have an opinion

[Airlea]

Speaking of fighting, know anything about the minor hockey leagues in Canada? Apparently, all they do is fight.

I'm afraid I haven't had the chance to catch some minor hockey league games since they're generally not broadcasted (not to my knowledge at least) but they're very popular and I wouldn't be surprised if it had something to do with the amount of fighting, if any.

I think with the minor leagues (at least ours--Vancouver Giants) the game is all about play and strategics. I've seen some great highlights from some of the minor league games and the team work is incredible. I would definately argue that a lot of this has to do with the fact that these players are definately in it for the game and not the money aspect of things. For instance, when we first got Pavel Bure he had a passion and fire about the game that really helped the Canucks.... They called him the Russian rocket. Since he turned out to be such an asset for the team, they up'd his salary (as they should) but after a while I noticed he wasn't playing as well as he did when he first came to the team. Then it came down to him not performing at all and he was traded. I feel to this day he got caught up in the money aspect of the business.

I feel that the minor leagues and refs are more true to their game than some of the NHL players and refs. Now, don't bite my head off.. I said SOME NHL players.. I know there are some good ones out there who are in it for the game and have the heart for the game.

The public wants to see a good game; they're paying to see awesome plays, decent calls, and their team win.

~Airlea~ hockey, eh?

[Airlea]

*groans* BERTUZZI WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure all of you know by now the hit that's made the headlines around the world. I saw the hit and from the moment Moore was heading face first to the ice, I knew Bertuzzi was going to get it. I KNEW this was going to happen!!! The Canucks would go gunning for Moore because of the hit on Naslund but this is way out of control. I think at best they should have just pissed Moore off for the rest of the season by picking on him---not giving him a hard one time hit. The guy is now in the hospital with a broken neck and is most likely out the rest of the season.

Pestering Moore the rest of the season would be the best thing they could have done... they could have involved getting in his way, egging him on, making comments etc; this would most likely piss Moore off to the point of making a move on one of the Canucks.

Don't get me wrong; I'm all for the Canucks but Burtuzzi went way too far with this one. I understand the whole retaliation aspect because the Canucks (and other teams) aren't just playing with other players on their team--they're playing with their friends and respectively their family.

Thus being said, what do you think should happen to Bertuzzi? Any predictions on what's going to be said from the committee tomorrow?

I think he's going to be suspended for the rest of the season as well as the playoff's (we're going there dammit!!), he's going to face charges by the Crown (the public interest in this is WAY too high for them not to) and I suspect he's going to pay a fine. None of course will reverse the damage that was caused by the hit on Moore--the physical pain or the emotional pain that Moore will face in his upcoming future.

Hockey is a rough sport. People are going to get hurt. Where do we draw the line though? :dunno: How far are we willing to let players go before something is done?

~Airlea~ Frustrated.

[carneyfolk]

the moral of the story is dont be a coward. it doesnt make you look good and some times it can cost you. moore could have died out there on the ice with the way bertuzzi came from behind and rode him into the ice. theres not any give on ice. its sick and eventhough the suspension will be less than enough and the fine will a small amount of what it should be and im sure that assault charges will be filed but the result is going to be a slap on the wrists.

The line was crossed here and should never go anywhere near this. its one thing to check a guy or to get into a fight with another player provided that he sees you coming and is able to prepare himself in whatever manner. This does nothing but give hockey a worse name than it already has and in a league that is already going down the dumps, gives it nothing but a bad name.

This incident didnt help anyone in anyway and i expect something should be done during the off season

[Nitestalker]

.... but too bad Naslund is a good player that the league needs(on the other hand if it was bertuzzi :moon: )

Never liked him, bertuzzi has never had my respect, since he started out with Islanders, before he turned into a so called "star" he was mostly known for picking on guys a lot smaller, and backing way from anyone close to his size, I guess he was pissed off from Moore hurting his meal ticket, but what a bonehead. I think he should get about 20 games or the rest of the season and playoffs, but in a lot of ways I think it was worst than Mcsorley on Brashear, and he got a whole season. BTW the night before Moore gave a Calgary player a pretty nasty highstick and no penalty was called(damn blind refs) so he is a chippy player but he doesn't deserve a broken neck.

[Zinia]

BANT for life. AND THEN he should be put on trial. That is pure BS.

[Zinia]

UPdate: http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1756628&partnersite=espn

Cry all you want, punk. The NHL needs to let the courts put that bastage away for a loooooong time.

[StealthDP]

I, personally, did not think that Moore had done anything wrong in the first incident. Yeah, it was a rough hit, bit I did not think it crossed the line. (For the record, I am an Avs fan...)
Bertuzzi was WAAAAY out of line. Hopefully, this will be the end of his career. The difference between the two hits is that Bertuzzi's was obviously meant to do some serious damage, no doubt about it.
Seeing him wail last night on TV sickened me... he has always been a borderline player. He did the crime, he should take the punishment like a man...

[CJHobbes]

Hrmm...was going to write something out but not worth getting into the argument about. Personally I was thinking they'd ban him for a year, but I knew they wouldn't ban him for more than the regular season and the first round of the playoffs. The Panger was right.

[Airlea]

http://www.cbc.ca/pcgi-bin/templates/sportsView.cgi?/news/2004/03/11/Sports/bertuzzi-suspension040311

Canadian aspect on the update =P

Even though he's taking a pay cut because he's not playing games the rest of the season, I still think he should be fined. I was VERY surprised by the fine against the Canucks organization and wondered why I hadn't thought of that before. :p That's a very interesting move and definately a good one. The organizations are as much at fault. Burke should have made it damn clear that retaliation in that aspect is not welcomed. I know Burke was pissed at the hit on Naslund but there were other ways he could have approached this. We don't know what was said behind the scenes but I sure as hell hope Burke told them (doubtful) to keep their heads. :spank:

I think Bertuzzi needs to take up some anger management program or something. Perhaps that will be apart of his sentencing. :p

Thanks Bertuzzi. You really let your team and fans down. Best wishes and good luck. You're going to need it.

~Airlea~

[Zinia]

He needs to be in prison. That was clearly with intent.

We ban one of the greatest to ever play baseball because he placed wagers on baseball and they ONLY consider Bertuzzi gone for the rest of this season? I hope they reconsider.

The NHL teams should not allow their players to EVER take the ice when he's dressed to play. Loss revenue will get the NHL's attention.

[teppic]

after reading about the incident (not seen it) i had so say "wtf?" when reading about that interview. how can he pile the guy into the ice and practically jump on him and then say he didnt actually mean to hurt him?? man this guy should get done for assault is all i can say. just cos it was on the ice doesnt mean it aint a crime to go breaking ppl's necks.

[SloththeShovel]

whew! That hit was some nasty stuff.








Tampa Bay Lightning- Stanley Cup 2004!!!!!!

[widowmaker]

It was over top and uncalled for. As many analists have put it. Moore already fought with someone on the other team and the issue should have ended there. Which to me says plain and simple they were out to injure him and would accept nothing less.
I just hope the issue ends at this.

For the record I don't like either club. Aves and Nucks = :spank:

Um. I cry out in my tiny little voice "Go Flames"

[Airlea]

after reading about the incident (not seen it) i had so say "wtf?" when reading about that interview. how can he pile the guy into the ice and practically jump on him and then say he didnt actually mean to hurt him?? man this guy should get done for assault is all i can say. just cos it was on the ice doesnt mean it aint a crime to go breaking ppl's necks.


The doctors aren't actually sure when the break took place. Moore went down with Burtuzzi on top of him (he didn't jump onto him--Burtuzzi had been holding Moore when they went down) then an av player went on top of them and then another player went on top of that pile so technically Moore had about 600lbs on top of him =(

Keep in mind that they've played a game together since the Naslund hit and nothing happened in that game so I honestly don't think Bertuzzi meant for it to go this far.

Still, I'm glad Moore is expected to make a full recovery. It's going to be interesting to see what happens between these two teams from now on.

[Nitestalker]

I think it was when he hit the ice, he went down hard, and with bertuzzi weighing about 230 lbs. From what I heard the suspension is the rest of the season plus playoffs but it is also open in that they put it as for how long Moore is unable to play, one thing I think is BS is the way the league handles the fines a player is given, the money goes into the NHLPA strike fund so it's just like larger union dues, bob goodenow can kiss my :moon: . Beyond the $250,00 the team was fined the coach Crawford should have been suspended and or fined also for the coments he made and from his reactin to the incident.

This was taken from a newsgroup, I don't know how acurate it is.

Bertuzzi's previous history

1991, playing in the Northern Ontario midget championships, when his team
> was beaten out in the finals by Sault Ste. Marie and he chased the winning
> team's bus out of the parking lot, swearing and pounding on the windows, out
> of control.
>
> The next year, his first in the Ontario Hockey League, Bertuzzi missed the
> end of that season and the beginning of the next when he was suspended 15
> games for kicking a Kitchener player.
>
> The year after that, in his own locker-room, for no apparent reason other
> than jealousy, he punched out teammate Jeff O'Neill, who at the time was
> Guelph's prized first-round pick.
>
> In the NHL, Bertuzzi punched linesman Jean Morin in a 1996 scuffle and ended
> up suspended for three games before losing 10 more games to suspension for
> jumping into the bench to attack a Colorado player in 2001
>

[Angel_of_Death]

i just got back from a sharks game and the refs were pretty bad

[StealthDP]

i just got back from a sharks game and the refs were pretty bad


Yeah, well, at least the Sharks beat the Kings... :p

[Zinia]

UPdate

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1827388

[Airlea]

More update:

NHL's Todd Bertuzzi charged with assault
CTV.ca News Staff

Vancouver Canucks star Todd Bertuzzi has been charged with assault causing bodily harm for his vicious attack on Steve Moore of the Colorado Avalanche.

The charge was announced in Vancouver Thursday following almost four months of investigation. Bertuzzi, 29, has been ordered to appear in provincial court July 9.

The Canucks' senior vice-president and GM, Dave Nonis, said the team was aware of the charges and "will continue to support Todd and his family throughout this process."

Hockey fans watched in horror as Bertuzzi sucker-punched Moore during a game in Vancouver back in March and drove him face-first into the ice. Moore was hospitalized with fractured vertebrae and a concussion.

Doctors say it's not known when Moore, 25, can play hockey again.

The attack was seen as retaliation for a hit Moore put on Vancouver star Markus Naslund that left the Canuck captain with a concussion and sidelined him for three games.

Bertuzzi offered a tearful apology at a news conference two nights after the incident, telling Moore and his family, "I had no intention of hurting you. I feel awful for what transpired."

"I don't play the game that way," he said. "I'm not a mean-spirited person."

Moore later told his own new conference that he didn't listen to Bertuzzi's apology and has not spoken to him since.
The NHL has suspended Bertuzzi indefinitely. He must meet with league commissioner Gary Bettman to determine his eligibility for the 2004-05 season.

The Canucks were also fined $250,000 and Bertuzzi lost almost $500,000 US in salary for missing the rest of the season and playoffs.

Later, the star player was also left off Canada's roster for the upcoming World Cup of Hockey.

Moore has mostly recovered from his injuries and says he hopes to return to the ice.

In February 2000, Marty McSorley, then with the Boston Bruins, was charged with assault after hitting then-Canuck Donald Brashear with a stick to the head.

McSorley was also charged with assault with a weapon. He was convicted and given an 18-month conditional discharge. He never played for the NHL again.

[King Mango]

What exactly constitutes a "legal" check?

Ultimately, if you don't want to get hurt, don't play hockey. It's not like you don't know going in that it's not ballet class.

LMAO:
http://wallofjokes.shacknet.nu/Sport/IceHockey_Primer.html