Home Recording [Archive] - Unreal Playground

Lord_Simeon

10-13-2003, 06:40 PM

Nice.
Let me know if you put it up anywhere on the net for download.

I used to use a Fostex 8 track reel to reel, with (i forget the brand) 12 channel mixing desk.
Most things i recorded mic'ed up, for that nice sound you only get with a good mic.
Keys and bass i hooked straight in.
I also had a great effects proc (forget the name of that too) with oodles of sounds, but i only really like a few different types.
Reverb, delay and chorus.

Some of the mixing "mixtures" i used.
Drums - Kicks dry, snare toms reverb
bass - dry
Keys - mixtures of delay, reverb and chorus
Guitars - gotta have reverb :D
Vocals - slight reverb for fullness.

Precedent

10-13-2003, 07:14 PM

What Simeon said, plus if you have midi and a sync box you can easily trigger different stuff. Having no sampler, my personal fave was triggering a bit of a bass pluck to fatten up the kick a bit (I had a 505 and all the kicks sounded a bit thin to me), but it all comes down to personal preference. :) Do share your creations once you're hooked up!

ShirleyFT

10-13-2003, 07:22 PM

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radio667

10-14-2003, 08:01 AM

Shirley , You can read reviews and tutorials ( on digital music ) at Futuremusic.com Great Mag on home recording -its a bit geared towards dance music -but its loaded with tons of great recording tips :)

ShirleyFT

10-14-2003, 11:20 AM

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radio667

10-14-2003, 12:26 PM

Shirley :) just in case you are thinking about making the leap to digital recording : http://www.computermusic.co.uk/main.asp is great place to learn everything about turning your computer to a powerful recording tool - something about having 50 tracks to work with thats just too cool to pass up ;) .

King Mango

10-14-2003, 04:28 PM

Shirl, that's great you are recording stuff! I do it all the time. I play a few different instruments, with guitar being my main squeeze. I have a custom Fender Strat, with 24 frets, dual humbuckers, (more on that in a sec) and has these great custom MOP inlays in the fingerboard in the shape of skull and crossbones.

My main processor is a Digitech GNX3. Absolutely amazing. It has a built in digital recorder, and too much stuff to list here. It has an emulator which will make my humbuckers sound like single coil on the slight chance that I would ever want that. :D

I record ideas and impromptu jams on the GNX, but when I am seriously recording, I use the comp. I use a couple different programs at the moment. Cakewalk makes some really good stuff, and I use them primarily. To get the final package together for a typical tune, is mostly a secret as the method is a big part of my style/final sound, but suffice to say that each instrument is a live recording there are no synths except for the obvious. Drums are live, bass is live, flutes, pianos, vocals etc... all live and done by me... I have a decent home studio. Most of it is basic theory wise and a lot of it doesn't even have a guitar in it. (proof at least in my mind, I am growing up a little. heheh)Though on guitar I have been known to play some arpeggios and chords with more than R,3,5 hehe. I can hold my own with any guitarist, I just don't feel the need to show off all the time anymore. lol I have left behind my metal days though, and am getting more comfortable with letting my feelings go WHEREVER they want when I am writing and the result is a more rounded, more complete presentation. Hopefully I am able to evoke from someone the mood I was in when I was putting it together. Whether it be mad, glad, sad, horny...:evil: Though I try to stay away from sad stuff, cause it takes a lot out of me...

1_LoSt_TaLiBaN

10-14-2003, 07:03 PM

lol no, you're normal :p

ShirleyFT

10-14-2003, 07:25 PM

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King Mango

10-14-2003, 09:11 PM

I have an old copy of Cakewalk laying around here somewhere. Isn't that just a Midi program or can you do regular audio tracks with it?

I suppose it might depend on what version you are using. I have two. Guitar tracks, and Guitar Studio. I started with Guitar Studio, and used the musical staves to program midi instruments, and was happy with that for a while, but now I use Guitar tracks because it is a bit newer and simpler for my purposes now. (Plus it came bundled free with my GNX. hehe) For final final production, I use Sonar. For stuff that I can't so at home I use royalty free loops in wav form that go about 50 bucks a CD, but they are worth it. I can beat map them, and then stretch them to any tempo or pitch without losing any quality. I spent more on musical equipment last year.. I could be driving a nice new F-250 four-by.... well not that much, but close.

I use midi interface only because that is what I have, and have never had a problem with it. (Except for the initail shock at the cost of a cord.... OMG!) My GNX has options for output of XLR, S/PDIF, and MIDI. (in and out which you gotta have believe me, I can load music into the GNX and have hands free control over it while I work out melodies... Man I LOVE that machine)

I have a regular blaster 16 sound card, and I don't think you would be able to tell the difference.... I have a ton of WIP's and haven't made these CD quality yet, there are some mixing issues, but minor. These are medium quality recordings:

Slab- Heavy riffage game music (http://home.comcast.net/~jcastile916/slab.mp3)

Bewildered- Written for our very own BWB for taking first place in the 6H.. not necessarily a prize :D (http://home.comcast.net/~jcastile916/bewildered.mp3)

Seduction- The name says it all... (http://home.comcast.net/~jcastile916/seduction.mp3)

UP until recently, I was like Hog, and hated everything I did, thought it sucked blah blah, but something has come over me and I am not too worried about that any more.

ShirleyFT

10-14-2003, 10:17 PM

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King Mango

10-15-2003, 12:15 AM

Digitech GNX3. I hate to sound like a commercial, but the thing PWNZ! It is a studio quality effects processor, amp/cabinet modeler. I don't even know how many effects it has. But it has all of em. heheh I can make it sound like anyone. U have made presets for Gilmour, Eric Johnson, Santana... And you would be hard pressed to tell the difference. It's amazing. The best part is, it's a floor pedal type thing, and I can control EVERYTHING with footswitches. Record, change tracks, pan, effects you name it. It has 128 presets for effects combinations. I can take it to a gig or wherever. The only thing is the drum machine is lame. But it's good enough if I have an idea, I can pick a drum beat/tempo (not programmable unfortunately) use the pitch shifter to record a bass line, record rythhm guitar, vocals and then a lead or whatever. Check it out.

http://www.digitech.com/products/gnx3.htm

radio667

10-15-2003, 07:13 AM

You guys should do what the band Postal Service did : record your ideas and parts down and then E-mail it back and forth between you guys . Building songs that way would Rock Big Time :rockon: !! I can see Shirley , King Mango , and , HOGGY doing something like that . All you need to do is agree to use the same software ( Sonar is a great choice ) and maybe up grade your computer a little - better sound card , more ram -you know small stuff

ShirleyFT

10-15-2003, 11:25 AM

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radio667

10-15-2003, 11:48 AM

An Unreal Jam Session .....:D I LIKE IT !!!!!!!

King Mango

10-15-2003, 02:05 PM

Mango's down for a aural three way. ouch... Just don't say that out loud-

Thanks for the compliments guys. It always feels good to know someone else likes it!

That GNX3 was an impulse buy too. I originally was just going to get a new guitar and practice amp, and when I went into the room to try out that black fender, the salesman plugged me in throught the GNX3, and I wound up not getting an amplifier that day... LOL He saw me comin a mile away. The only other pedals I have owned were a Vintage Morley wah from late 60's early 70's (got stolen) and a Rat distortion pedal which I traded to get the Morley. That was all I ever needed. I dont' know what I would do without the GNX3 now though... I am totally dependant on it.

King Mango

10-15-2003, 02:15 PM

All you need to do is agree to use the same software ( Sonar is a great choice )
No need to use the same software. I use about 4 different brands. All I do is import wav's and make a track out of em same as if I was playing the instrument live. As long as everything is in tempo, which I can fix with the beatmapper if it isn't. I can make a sample in ModPlug, import it to another program, loop it (say it's a drum beat or some such) Then Make another sample for the break, chorus etc, import them cut and paste to where I want them, BAM! drum track. Then hook up the trusty GNX3 and I can import the drum line from the computer to it, loop a section or all of it, work out a bass line record it, mix it (either seperate tracks or bounced...) send it back to the computer. Get it in SONAR beat map it again, mess with tempo/key if I want. Then get a guitar line going or bring in a synth or other instruments from another program... The possibilities are endless. So much flexibility nowadays.

Oh and btw, my sound card is a 9 dollar generic blaster clone... hehe

radio667

10-15-2003, 03:13 PM

Wow , King :D you Know Your stuff - Very Cool !!

fragnbrag

10-15-2003, 05:01 PM

Wow , King :D you Know Your stuff - Very Cool !!

wow mango impessive musical skillz there dude (of course i knew that already :p - cool tunes there... i'll bet you've quite a diverse collection of goodies. i dabble in this stuff a bit as well, although not remotely seriously as some of you obviously are - i have provided some soundtrack music to clients for presos, tho, which was quite simple synth stuff and ws fun to make (blah blah)

btw, i play guitar and bass, strat/lespaul guy, keyboards for fun (really wanted to by a Triton but the wife said NO!

some of my music stuff (http://members.rogers.com/fragnbrag/music/music.html), experimentation really, most are actually counter to my *normal* musical tastes, which more hard-rock... but if you listen to it think "TV show or theme music" and it makes more sense.

oh and if you do give it a listen, crank it up LOUD :evil:

cheers

ShirleyFT

10-15-2003, 05:42 PM

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Airlea

10-15-2003, 06:38 PM

I've got a Casio Ct-670 keyboard for sale if anyone's interested. Here are some specs/reviews on it. If anyone wants further info, pm me and I'll see what I can dig up.

http://www.harmony-central.com/Synth/Data/Casio/CT-670-01.html

Casio CT-670 Specifications

Type: Synth/ keyboard/
Synthesis Type: wavetable
Polyphony:
Max: 12
Typical in use:
Multi-timbral (number of parts): 4
Controllers : Pedal
Effects :
Number of FX units : ?
Number of different effects : 4
Keyboard :
Number of Keys : 61
Can send on 1 simultaneous MIDI channels
Responds to :
Sounds can be split by : keyboard
Memory :
Patches : 220
Performances : 110 beats
Inputs and Outputs :
Number of Audio Outs (excluding Phones) : 1 (L/R)
Number of Audio Ins :
Number of MIDI Outs (excluding Thru) : 1
Number of MIDI Ins : 1

~Airlea~

King Mango

10-15-2003, 07:12 PM

WOW! Frag! That is great stuff! I am very VERY impressed. Listening to torpedo- You obviously know who Buck Dharma is....

And what is that with Elanor Rigby? That is amazing! I have to be hearing things. That is spot-on. wow

Cool web design too. Man of many talents:D

Dorkorama

10-15-2003, 07:14 PM

Well, I've sort of stumbled into this topic (meant to read it earlier, but just didn't somehow.)

Persoanlly, I think I'd be an an odd-man-out, as I tend to compose in MIDI alone (though I admit I need to at least get my butt ito gear and go to a MODule filetype.)
Anyway, my gear: Sound Blaster Live! Platinum. I currently am using the 8 MB default SoundFont as well as a few from the install CD and the freeware one, Unison. I haven't moved beyond because it's the only version that has a 'LierDrive' (5 1/4" bay ports) with full-size DIN-5 MIDI I/O (I know, it's slowly moving to USB)
Some Yamaha MIDI KB capable of 16 note polyphony I/O, speed sensitive keys, a sustain pedal, and a "whamy wheel" (portamento.)
AutoScore 2.0; this is a software package that transcribes (or attempts to) microphone input into a real-time MIDI instrument. It's pretty old and I haven't played around with it nearly enough.
Yamaha Electronic Woodwind (really old.) Keyed like a saxaphone, and totally incapable of slurred notes. Not too particularily useful outside of not having to toally rework more dynamic sections.
CakeWalk Express 8 -- pretty much a straight MIDI tracker that came bundled with my SB Live.

King Mango

10-15-2003, 07:25 PM

I think it would be great for us all to put together a medley. Anyone wanting to get involved should say so, and it is apparent that we are all capable of putting a complete tune together, I suggest we find an online equivalent of drawing straws. Perhaps Radio can think of a number between 1 and 50, and we all guess at it, and the closest one goes first for say 128 bars, then next closest takes over... Keep in mind that you will have to provide a reasonable 4 measures at the end that would support some sort of blend for the next person.

And Frag, I just listened to the rest of those tracks, and I mean come on, spill the beans man... You're really Paul aren't you. Not fair at all... :tsk: :D

King Mango

10-15-2003, 07:59 PM

Well this is just something I recorded a while ago, and have never gotten around to polishing. And since my guitar is in the shop now... What the heck it's only a 48K sample rate, and there are rampant mistakes... But it shows a bit of technical playing. It's an original tune. Very rough draft. This is typical of how something starts. The next step is to make a drum line, possibly a bass line, then redo the guitar. So I give you garage tape no. 1. hehe

http://home.comcast.net/~jcastile916/21stcenturymozart.mp3

again don't expect a hight quality recording.... This was done with the GNX on a low quality to preserve recording space. Before I got familiar with my other tools. :D When I get my axe back, I will make a final final of it.

ShirleyFT

10-15-2003, 08:26 PM

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fragnbrag

10-15-2003, 08:51 PM

FragNBrag, I listened to Eleanor Rigby and I thought it was most impressive. Nice work. What did you use, CoolEdit?

heheh SFT, you're almost right on -- that was done on a P3 with a SBLive! and Creative Midi bank, recorded and multi-tracked using Syntrillium CoolEdit 2000 (plus the 4-track studio plugin) i learned the quartet pieces peice at a time by playing along with the George Martin (remixed) version of ER on the Yellow Submarine CD (latest one) the strings were quite clear on that version so i ripped it and studied it, mimicking the instruments using my PC keyboard (yes :p i recorded all the bits using this as a keyboard...

QWERTYUIOP[]
ASDFGHJKL;'
ZXCVBNM,./

surprise - it works pretty good too but it IS unnatural compared too a piano keyboard...

I then blended the whole mess together using a standard ping-ponging mixing method utilizing the 4 tracks - the midi quality was not the best so i ran a barrage of transforms on each string to try and boost the quality (dunno, i think it sounds better ?) it's kinda *heavey* sounding (i like that)

note the slight tempo change under the second verse (i forget what they call that as i'm sketchy on my music theory :scratch: but THAT timing was damn hard to get right!!! Once i had the panning and mixing done all i had to do was sing - it was a decent quality sure vocal mic, plugged into a 4-channel mixer which i then lined into the sound-card (i can't remember the mixer brand-name, it was a common german product though) i'm careful when recording into PC to use properly matched input so i don't damage my *cheap* soundCard... one day i'll get one of those good ones purposely designed for accepting instrument input... :)

i multi tracked and corused the vocals (you can tell from the recording) it took me about 10 tries to get the job done cause i don't sing too well - and then added the overdubbed harmonies and the bit at the end... funny, that track can fool people who don't listen really *closely* to music... heh

CoolEdit 2000 + 4-track studio cost me $110 us, which was a really GOOD deal but sadly, all things must pass - ADOBE bought Syntrillium and discontinued the product - you can get CoolEdit Pro still, but it costs alot more $...

cheers

fragnbrag

10-15-2003, 09:09 PM

Dorkorama

10-15-2003, 09:43 PM

King Mango

10-15-2003, 09:47 PM

mimicking the instruments using my PC keyboard (yes :p i recorded all the bits using this as a keyboard...

QWERTYUIOP[]
ASDFGHJKL;'
ZXCVBNM,./

surprise - it works pretty good too but it IS unnatural compared too a piano keyboard...

This is one of the reasons I hate to use MPT...:D
It's not too bad if you know intervals, but it is just too unnatural for me, I never know what is what, and I have to count over from the left for every interval and that is just a pain in the tuckus....

King Mango

10-15-2003, 09:49 PM

Eek. I'm way out of my league here. I've hardly composed anything, and I've nevr really comitted it to even bits. Mostly I massage MIDI, giving it dynamics, appropriate reverb, and such. I just wish there was an easy way of doing this. (Even that MIDI transcriber doesn't really help, much.)

You're not gettin out that easy Dorko... All your MIDI are belong to us.

And besides posting in this thread automatically commits you to the project. :D

fragnbrag

10-15-2003, 10:13 PM

You're not gettin out that easy Dorko... All your MIDI are belong to us.

And besides posting in this thread automatically commits you to the project. :D

uh oh, dorko he has you now - the king owns u :p

Dorkorama

10-15-2003, 10:14 PM

You're not gettin out that easy Dorko... All your MIDI are belong to us.

And besides posting in this thread automatically commits you to the project. :D:angst: :weird: :( :eek:
"Yeah, no pressure," said the musical masseur.

radio667

10-16-2003, 07:35 AM

This is quickly becoming my favorite thread :D the Unreal Project Ownz !!

Dorkorama

10-16-2003, 09:38 AM

I stumbled upon this while lookinf for a new / easier MIDI tracking program:
http://www.akoff.com/music-composer.html

ShirleyFT

10-17-2003, 05:10 PM

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radio667

10-20-2003, 07:38 AM

Shirl , have you figured out your latency problem yet ? If not i can look around futruemusic's site for some info on it ( i remember reading years ago in their magazine about soundblaster live's latency trouble and how to deal with it - at the time i didnt own a computer - i just had an MC505 and SP808 - so it didnt stick to my head - sorry about that ) but ill look around :)

FBMachine

10-20-2003, 02:12 PM

along with an Alesis SR-16 drum machine.
I used an SR-16 for years with my Tascam 4-track until it crapped out on me. I've been trying hard to not write guitar music this past year or so, trying to write from a different perspective. This is something I'm working on for a friend, it's very early and rough, but hopefully it's not too crappy:

http://home.earthlink.net/~overturedt/DrumBass-07.mp3
No it's not drum-n-bass style music, I just used a random name when I needed to name the file, at the beginning it was only drums and bass guitar. I'm not sure what style of music it is yet.
I'm also still not sure if I like where it's going or not. My friend I'm doing it for likes it though, so it's all good. :)
Dan

fragnbrag

10-20-2003, 06:37 PM

I used an SR-16 for years with my Tascam 4-track until it crapped out on me. I've been trying hard to not write guitar music this past year or so, trying to write from a different perspective. This is something I'm working on for a friend, it's very early and rough, but hopefully it's not too crappy:

http://home.earthlink.net/~overturedt/DrumBass-07.mp3
No it's not drum-n-bass style music, I just used a random name when I needed to name the file, at the beginning it was only drums and bass guitar. I'm not sure what style of music it is yet.
I'm also still not sure if I like where it's going or not. My friend I'm doing it for likes it though, so it's all good. :)
Dan

nice stuff :cool:

King Mango

10-20-2003, 07:44 PM

That's very nice Dan. Very moody and dark. It's perfect for working your way through a single player mission. Movie soundtrack type thing. Perfect. That is what I am trying to get into. I need to get some more stuff though. :D Need to get more support for strings. I will buy more stuff when I get my vacation check from the union next month. God bless em. Next year's return is going towards a new computer.... I'll be set! That would be perfect as an asset over at gamebeavers.

[S]uper[D]ank

10-21-2003, 05:04 PM

hmmm music... on PC!... lovely!....

i have sound blaster live 24bit... i have no problems with latency - it is set at deafult 50 -

i brought mine down to 10-20 and it works great with my MIDI controllers!...

King Mango

10-22-2003, 12:04 AM

uper[D]ank']hmmm music... on PC!... lovely!....

i have sound blaster live 24bit... i have no problems with latency - it is set at deafult 50 -

i brought mine down to 10-20 and it works great with my MIDI controllers!...

hehe prove it! :p:D

Valis

10-22-2003, 05:48 AM

M-Audio cards are quite acceptable, and there are other cards on the market as well that will work great within a budget but are higher than the consumer cards gamers tend to own. If you're just 'playing around' most consumer cards are ok, but when you start to get to where technical issues matter its a good idea to take a look at your specific needs, what you may want to do in the future, and your budget--then spend a couple of months reading & researching (forums!) and make a purchase.

Problem with the soundblaster/audigy cards is that they (unfortunately) are locked at 48khz inside the emu 10k chip inside. If you work in 44.1khz you lose low latency ASIO support from the Creative supplied asio driver (tho Sonar will still do ok via wdm), so you're forced to work in 48khz in most audio apps. There is ALWAYS a conversion process for everything as well, meaning that your recording gets digitized once and then run through through the resampling before leaving the emu chip, even when you're in 48khz mode. Only the newest upper Audigy models allow you to bypass this, and only with an incoming spdif/digital input already at 48khz. This resampling causes some pretty severe issues above 8khz and below 80hz in what your recording, and also what you're hearing while you 'mix' in the pc.

For those of you still willing to work with 4track/8track machines, kudos to you!

Anyway I decided to chime in here :)

radio667

10-22-2003, 07:46 AM

EZ Does it :rockon: ( again ) - Thank You for the Great Info !!!!!!!

ShirleyFT

10-22-2003, 10:55 AM

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Valis

10-22-2003, 12:32 PM

First I would always suggest downloading & installing the latest drivers for your USB Audiophile. After looking through the manual for this device briefly, I can see that under Windows it provides MME, WDM and ASIO audio drivers.

MME is the oldest format (MultiMediaExtensions) and generally only used for compatibility, the old '95' style before directsound came along.

WDM is the current WindowsDriverModel format and can mean a few things actually. More on this in a second.

ASIO is a proprietary protocol specifically for low latency audio developed by Steinberg and put out into the world as an 'open' standard, and it has become fairly universal across Mac & PC both.

Cakewalk Home Studio 2002 is a scaled down version of Sonar2 that includes a basic featureset that should be adequate for most small production tasks.

This is where the details come in, but a quick history lesson first:

ASIO is touted as being a cross platform & open standard, but its technically still under the control of Steinberg (the creating company). When Cakewalk (Inc.) decided a few years ago to move into the modern audio production arena and upgrade Cakewalk 9 (sequencer) to Sonar they made a decision NOT to go with a competitor's standard (ASIO) and work directly with Microsoft to develop a specific extension to the WDM format called 'streaming kernel mode'. This allows (in theory) WDM wav drivers to achieve the same low latency multichannel support that ASIO cards offer, without having to be beholden to Steinberg (but beholden to MS instead). Recently with the release of Sonar3 Cakewalk has finally given in and support ASIO (as well as vst/vsti) and has made the entire issue moot.

HOWEVER, your version of Home Studio 2002 is (I assume) based on Sonar2's engine and required WDM support. Luckily your Audiophile USB claims to offer this according to the manual I downloaded. If its not for some reason working after updating drivers I would first check your configuration, and then if this doesn't work (or proves confusing) check with Cakewalk's technical support for help.

Unfortunately I don't have actual experience with either of these so its hard to help you further, but good luck!

Valis

10-22-2003, 01:22 PM

Are you calling me an....

InValid?
(sp :hammer: )

ShirleyFT

10-22-2003, 03:38 PM

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FBMachine

10-22-2003, 04:01 PM

You might want to try the free version of ProTools to get your feet wet with digital multitrack recording.
http://www.digidesign.com/ptfree/
There's a major problem with it though, in that it only works on 98/ME ( the original reason I chose to dual boot with win2k and 98 instead of just switching to 2k outright... ). If you have access to win98 though, check it out since it won't cost you anything, and will prepare you for when you're ready to plunk down some cash for something better. :)

With 8 channel audio support, 48 MIDI track capability, and a slew of DigiRack™ and third party Plug-Ins at your disposal, your options are endless.

Dan

Valis

10-23-2003, 01:03 AM

Shirley there are a wealth of options out there.

I suspect that Sonar3, Cubase Sx and etc. are all excellent but I personally use an app that isn't even supported on PC anymore (Logic Audio) as Apple was kind enough to buy the parent company to keep it all for themselves (on Mac).

I would think however that your version of Sonar (Cakewalk Home Studio) should work with the audiophile and don't see why it wouldn't be worth trying to have a go at getting them to work together.

If you would rather upgrade I see that Cakewalk Home studio 2004 (http://store.yahoo.com/cakewalkdirect2/cakhomstud20.html) is only a $49 upgrade (with valid serial) and Sonar 3 Studio (http://store.yahoo.com/cakewalkdirect2/sonar3studio.html) is a $199 upgrade (for registered cakewalk users).

There are so many programs on the market now for music production on a computer that its hard to emphatically recommend one over another without it being simply a matter of personal preference being pushed on others. If for some reason you would rather leave Cakewalk I would need an idea of what your current needs are (usage) and what you think you may like to try to expand to in the future. There are definaly apps I would recommend you steer away from if you don't need their specific features.

ShirleyFT

10-23-2003, 09:49 AM

...

-=[Dg]=-

10-23-2003, 10:42 AM

Before I go out and get a protools setup for a couple grand I'd like to start with something cheaper.
Pro Tools is by far the best audio app for editing/mixing - the midi stuff, I'm not sure about since I don't use that aspect of PT, but I'm sure it rocks.

You can get an MBox (http://www.digidesign.com/products/mbox/main.cfm) for about $450 and that includes Pro Tools LE.

Valis

10-23-2003, 12:54 PM

I'm still not sure why Cakewalk home studio won't work for you?

And i'd skip Cubasis, its basically a scaled down version of cubase from 1998.

As far as pro tools free, its one of the original audio multitrackers and is industry standard but its midi implementation is pretty horrid. However since you already have an adequate usb soundcard you may not want to buy a new usb audio device just to gain access to PT LE. Other than supporting its own plugin standard in addition to vst, you're not really gaining that much if you're not working with the intent of importing a session directly into studios.

If you're not interested in hanging onto your version of Home Studio or upgrading, you might want to check out Samplitude (http://www.samplitude.com/de/sam.htm) which is EXTREMELY efficient as a pc app and supports almost all versions of windows (98/ME/2k/XP) although XP is preferred.

It has the same learning curve as any other higher end audio app for modern computers (cubasesx/nuendo/logic/protools/sonar etc) but you can go nab a demo to check it out: http://www.samplitude.de/de/v7_demo_en.htm

In addition to having 2 different versions you can choose from (classic for $499 and pro for $999) you can choose to do "Sam for Rent" and pay a small monthly fee for the app instead of the entire purchase price up front.

Anyway, just an idea :)

ShirleyFT

10-24-2003, 03:31 PM

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Valis

10-24-2003, 03:58 PM

Have you tried the Audiophile with Cubasis?

Iwasn't aware you owned Cubasis and I was actually recommending you skip any software purchase since (in theory) cakewalk should have woked fine.

The Samplitude comment was more just in response to someone mentioning Pro Tools (which is quite popular). Both PT & Samplitude are far too tracking-oriented (audio tracking, not MOD/XM tracking) for my tastes, but its nice to know options if you are in the market for that sort of thing.

Anyway, if I were playing around with your setup it would be interesting to see if the Audiophile works with Cubasis as you could then work in low-latency 44.1khz. If that also doesn't work it removes the possibility of a driver issue--cakewalk studio's lack of asio and strict WDM requirements may not have been the actual issue. Perhaps there's an irq sharing with your usb which is causing conflicts? One of the things about low latency audio is that it doesn't so much tax cpu like a game or 3d app would, but it causes quite a few interrupt calls to be made to constantly stream packets of data to the hardware (soundcard). If there's any irq shared with a low latency soundcard it will often have problems.

Anyway, if you're happy with the Audigy then good luck & have fun! If not feel free to try any of these and let me/us know how it went.

ShirleyFT

10-24-2003, 04:49 PM

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radio667

10-25-2003, 01:17 AM

Guys , in case you are still having some recording problems - remember that future music has a pretty decent forum : http://forum.midiaddict.com/index.php .....they even have a FAQ section and thats always cool :)

Valis

10-25-2003, 01:34 AM

Hogman, if you're down with spending some $, you might try this:

http://www.audiomidi.com/common/cfm/product.cfm?Product_ID=348

it has unbalanced 1/4" x2 (stereo) out which you could convert to a 1/8" stereo minijack (assuming that's what your soundcard has).

I personally wouldn't use the mic input to your computer unless you haven't got any other option. Most inexpensive soundcards use incredibly cheap components to amplify the mic input which add a ton of coloration and noise to the incoming signal.

The BEST way to go is to get a proper recording channel of some sort (TL Audio, focusrite, Prosonus etc) that accepts instrument level ins (guitar/bass) and will convert to typical unbalanced outputs (what most consumer soundcard's i/o typically is). A good recording channel will often have compression/eq etc as well which can really help 'fatten' up the sound and treat any tonal issues, but they're going to run more than the line6 pod. On the plus side they'll often have xlr mic inputs as well (with phantom power) which would allow you to use something like a Shure sm57 (or equivalent inexpensive quality condenser mic) to 'mic' your cab there. Of course all that costs $.

A cheaper option is to just get something that will convert the signal to the proper level like a small mixer. Mackie has a new Tapco mixer http://www.audiomidi.com/common/cfm/product.cfm?Product_ID=3824 which has 2 inputs that could accept your bass/guitar, and 2 additional stereo channels in as well. Inexpensive and decent quality compared to other inexpensive mixers. Then to impart the tonal qualities of a 'cab' you could use Amplitude (I know a LOT of people that use this plugin) http://www.audiomidi.com/common/cfm/product.cfm?Product_ID=2246 .

ShirleyFT

10-25-2003, 11:23 AM

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Lord Jim

10-25-2003, 12:05 PM

However I'm also looking at this other device. It's called an Audiophile USB and it runs for about $200-$250. Does anybody know anything about these cards?

I'm back. So what type of equipment do you use for recording?

I only read the first few posts SFT. So I hope I i'm not covering old ground for you...

I have recently (in the last week) Just installed a new M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 sound card... & it rocks!

Lord_Simeon & I have done A LOT of recording together in the past & can say with confidence that the quality of sound I'm getting using this card is WAY better than even L_S' old Fostex 8 track Reel to Reel (No offence Si)

I use Cubase VST 32 V5.0 & the sound quality is utterly professional in every way (as long as you have the know how & VSt plug-ins to back it up... I have just done a DM tune for L_S that came out very well... albiet a typical dancy type techno mush) Otherwise... M-Audio Make PROFESSIONAL standard products @ decent consumer prices. I researched for months on this very issue.

You cant go wrong using the Audiophile (I've never used the USB though)...

Good luck!!!

If you want more info on anything of this nature I'll be morethan happy to pass on what LITTLE I have learned.

Rock on.

Doofus

10-25-2003, 12:54 PM

Do they make ProTools for PC? The premeir hard disk recording software for Mac is available free in a limited evaluation edition, which is actually plenty for most home recording setups.

ShirleyFT

11-01-2003, 09:16 PM

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King Mango

11-01-2003, 10:54 PM

Shirl, I'm sorry to hear about your friend. I lost the drummer from my first band, and I never listen to the tapes. He committed suicide, and it's just too hard to go back there.

On a more positive note, it sounds like you got the fire lit. I knew you would love the digital audio capabilities. Beatmapping and stretching without losing any discernable quality... Like being able to restore those tapes to their original tempo. :D

I just got my guitar back a couple days ago, it was gone for almost three months, and I can't play a lick. My fingers are bleeding... LOL It's gonna take a while to get familiar with it again. I only just started playing again this March when I got my tax return. I took about a nine year or so lay off. :doooh:

What happened to the UP project? Anyone still interested? Let's see if we can agree on a motif, or style and work out a rythm track. I know there was a shortage of drummers it seemed, (sorry if I forgot anyone's skill....) so If you guys can come up with an "e-chart" I'll put drums to it.

so.... wasaaaaaa?

-=[Dg]=-

11-01-2003, 11:53 PM

Do they make ProTools for PC? The premeir hard disk recording software for Mac is available free in a limited evaluation edition, which is actually plenty for most home recording setups.
Yes they do make it for PC.
And there's a free version for PC just like the free version for Mac.
The only issue is that it only runs on 98 or ME.
Get it here (http://www.digidesign.com/ptfree/)

I just bought an MBox on Friday to use with my PowerBook
It comes with Mac and PC Pro Tools LE.

http://homepage.mac.com/drew1/.Pictures/PT_Win1.jpg

Doofus

11-02-2003, 12:24 AM

I just spent the last week going through old cassettes, reel to reels, miles of tape to find stuff from bands I've been in. I've been bringing it into the computer and digitizing it and then restoring the tapes using digital noise reduction. It's amazing! I found some tapes that were from 1974 and were noisy as hell and I cleaned them up beyond my imagination. Very cool. :cool:

What software did you use for cleaning Shirl?

ShirleyFT

11-02-2003, 01:32 AM

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ShirleyFT

11-02-2003, 12:48 PM

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radio667

11-04-2003, 08:44 AM

Wow , Shirley :D I Love that Idea !!! ......... Congrats Hoggy :rockon: Now get Rockin !!

ShirleyFT

11-04-2003, 03:36 PM

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Precedent

11-08-2003, 12:16 PM

Any tips on running my drum machine (SR-16) via MIDI or whatever? I have patterns programmed into the drum machine, but I believe I can do all of that via software and then have that software run my drum machine instead of having to store all the patterns on the SR-16. Anyone have any experience in this?

Dunno how helpful this might be, but I used to use software from Opcode - i think it was called vision -- back in the day to store and mix midi routines (on a mac tho). I would hook midi out of my drum machine to the midi in on a mark of the unicorn interface and have the software record any patterns I had programmed in the drum machine. I believe both the HR and SR-16 have midi out capability. Once the patterns were recorded onto disk, I could mix, match, repeat, tweak, etc. then when I had built up 48 or 100 bars or so I could reverse the midi cables and then hit 'play' and the software would trigger the drum machine to play whatever I had come up with. Then I could print that to tape or just plug in myguitar and jam with it. Cool efx too from layering say a kick and a low volume snare together to get more *whoop* in the bottom or copying my snare track, then delaying it like 10 milliseconds and having both play and the copied track triggers a hihat (or even a second snare for a bit of a delay). Each drum sample in your alesis should have a midi number assigned to it, so once you're in to the software you just adjust the midi numbers to have your pattern trigger different/other samples.

The next level was getting my hands on a JLCooper sync box so I wouldn't have to print the MIDI stuff to tape, I'd just stripe one track on the tape deck with the JLCooper sync tone and then hitting play on the tape deck would trigger the midi and i'd thereby have more tracks avail for guitars, vocals, or thumping water bottles, or whatever :D

The principle may still hold, but I'm sure there's now better/improved software out there for this. Before you embark on anything as ridiculous as I was doing, I suggest you load up on snacks and drinks, old-tyme pretzels seemed to improve my results :) hth - Prec

Doofus

11-08-2003, 01:49 PM

That drum machine should work with any MIDI software. What do you want to do with it? Just think of it as an external synth exclusively devoted to drum sounds.

If you are missing the manual, you should be able to obtain one from Alesis.

I have the HR-16, the first great inexpensive consumer drum machine with sampled sounds. Cost me over $400 new back then, which was still a bargain.

Valis

11-08-2003, 05:07 PM

Hogman, I might suggest you also give drums in software a shot (ie, software sampler/drum machine). Compression & Eq can help tune & fatten up drum sounds a LOT, and are much cheaper/easier to achieve in software...just a thought.

radio667

11-11-2003, 03:11 PM

Two things ...one..."BUMP"...., and two....heres another helpful site for UP's own music makers ... http://www.sonicstate.com/articles/

Precedent

11-12-2003, 10:15 PM

great link radio...ty :)

ShirleyFT

11-13-2003, 02:43 AM

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radio667

11-13-2003, 07:14 AM

Hey Guyz , Your Welcome :D im glad i could Help - WOOT !!

justicefornone

11-18-2003, 03:29 PM

couldnt really be bothered to read all the other posts so i'll just say i record my guitar direct into my computer into cubase and i use nero 5.5 to edit the songs (add reverb etc) afterwards.

Thats what i recommend \../

ShirleyFT

11-19-2003, 03:25 PM

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King Mango

11-19-2003, 03:32 PM

count me in

ShirleyFT

11-20-2003, 12:06 PM

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King Mango

11-20-2003, 12:34 PM

That sounds good, I was thinking though, I am pretty versatile in styles so it might be easier for someone else to go first than to try and fit to my kinda whacky original style.... :D

I enjoy listening to, and can play anything from Tarrega to Tool... I have some tracks laying around though if you want to have a listen. Email me and I'll zip up a couple/few mp3's and forward them along.

kingmango@comcast.net

:D

ShirleyFT

11-20-2003, 10:19 PM

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ShirleyFT

11-20-2003, 10:41 PM

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radio667

11-21-2003, 07:33 AM

TOOL ,TOOL ,TOOL ,TOOL ,TOOL ,TOOL , or RadioHead ,but mostly ,TOOL ,TOOL ,TOOL ,TOOL ,TOOL ,TOOL ,TOOL ,TOOL ,TOOL TOOL ,TOOL ,TOOL ,TOOL ,TOOL ,TOOL ,TOOL ,TOOL , TOOL ,TOOL ,TOOL ,TOOL,TOOL,TOOL,TOOL,TOOL,TOOL,TOOL,TOOL, ..........:D ....ok i 'll stop now ;) !!!!

King Mango

11-21-2003, 11:08 AM

Well if I have a choice... TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL TOOL.

Tune the guitar way down, at least a whole step each string and toss out some grungy muddy riff, with kick ass syncopated drums and some wack wandering bass line with bitchin tone, that somehow fits even though it's nothing any normal person could have heard.... :D Yeah Tool! Best friggin band ever!

Right arm Hoggy! I expect this to be the funnest thing I've done all year.... Besides the first time I fragged Creeper finally.... :D

ShirleyFT

11-28-2003, 12:15 PM

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radio667

12-01-2003, 07:42 AM

Very Cool :D Shirley !!!

ZOLE

12-03-2003, 02:01 PM

Although cakewalk and Computer recording programs are fine....I like alot more control..
I have a Zoom 1266 cd it is a 14 track digital recorder with Just about everything built in .(guit effects, drum machine,bass machine.etc)
once It is recorded and Mastered I edit it with Goldwave for time and change it to Wav. or Mp3 using Lame (goldwave and lame are shareware....Google it )
If your going to spend Money on Equipment ...Spend it wisely
Me and My band have spent alot of money ...(excess of 150k ) We bought the bulk of it 15 years ago and we still use it today.....meaning we bought to add on not to replace....
As far as personal equipment ....that is a different Story
I Took piano lessons from about 5 yrs old...So my first Piece was a mini-moog synth (remember those????? ahahHHAH)
then I started on guitar....Then Joined a band ...Played for about 9 years (steady Weekends) after that band broke Up I started playing Drums ...(www.somethingwet.com) and Still fill in from time to time with those guys.
My original band Got back together 2 years ago and we were a 3 piece with each of us playing so many instruments it would make your Head spin. then We got wise and picked up a guitarist and i moved back to drums ( 4 drum kits later) hahaha
here is a project that I wrote, played every instrument on, mixed and mastered.
Be mindful that the Mp3 stream has a nasty reverb that is not on the original recording...and If ya think of it drop a comment in the comment section:
http://www.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/ZOLE/

I will watch this topic and maybe i could help some of you who want to record a bit

Z

ShirleyFT

12-03-2003, 02:26 PM

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ZOLE

12-05-2003, 11:20 AM

Thank you for the words Shirley.....
Yes those two programs are great aren't they?

Z

ShirleyFT

12-14-2003, 03:13 PM

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ShirleyFT

12-14-2003, 05:20 PM

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King Mango

12-14-2003, 07:03 PM

Sup Hoggy.

That all depends on your software. Personally, I would convert the MP3 to a wav, then make a track out of it in your recording software. Then using said software, add whatever instrument you intend as a separate track. When that is finished, you can mix down the two tracks and render them into an mp3 so they are combined. However Shirl may wish to be in control of the final mixdown, so maybe he would like to have your addition as a separate take. Once we all start getting into adding things, the original drum bass mix Shirl creates may get lost in the background. I have beatmapping capabilities, so if anyone is having difficulty synching up their takes, I can stretch/blend a lot of sloppy/offtime tracks to gether into separate but tempo matched tracks for a mix. :D

I can also work from any audio filetype so the only restriction to my capabilities would be if two instruments are on one track, I wouldn't be able to separate and adust them. Also shirl, do you plan on keeping a separate copy of the drum and bass, cause it's just about certain that those will need to be rebalanced as we progress.

Cool, progress! I am looking forward to this. Though, atm my sound card is borked. I get major clipping and drop outs. I think I accidentally overloaded a signal and fried the channel. :eek:

ShirleyFT

12-15-2003, 02:14 AM

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radio667

12-15-2003, 07:55 AM

:D can't wait to hear the finished song !!!

ZOLE

12-15-2003, 08:17 PM

Let me Know where I could hear what you guys have so far............Once it is done....I might have some time to add whatever

Z

ShirleyFT

12-17-2003, 12:07 PM

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tarnationsauce2

12-17-2003, 12:18 PM

King Mango

12-17-2003, 03:17 PM

Sorry guys, but I won't be participating in this thing. Due to attacks on my religion, I feel it's time to leave UP. Don't worry, you'll probably do a better job without me. Good luck and have fun..
Wow, it never ceases to amaze me, the number of people who leave their friends behind at a place because of the actions of others. I'm really disappointed in you Shirl.

I'm sure you'll find some place perfect where every one thinks and says the same things.

Good luck to you. Happy Holidays, and maybe you'll come back to your senses when the silly season's over...

King Mango

12-19-2003, 05:27 PM

Anyone interested in working on this still? If so here is a rough track open to suggestions. It is UT themed, only one section done. It needs still a chorus/bridge whatever you think.

http://home.comcast.net/~jcastile916/TheUPproject.mp3

Can this be a base? Someone else take it to the next level. I can separate out the drums and guitars etc... I made this in MPT which is not my usual medium. I usually use ADID pro 4. I use Cakewalk Guitar Tracks to digitize my guitar lines. But unfortunately I am having probs with sound on my computer. I think I fried a sound circuit.... Anyway...

Come on back Shirl. I know that sounded a bit mean earlier, but that's the way I was raised. Sometimes the internet is not the best way to communicate. It was meant as a friendly prod.