Who is the most crucial component of game creation?

[Smood]

Please vote and share opinions. Who is the most important, and most crucial part of the creation of a game?

[LOF_INFERNO]

I think they are all the same.

A programmer makes the tools and basic rules of gameplay for the game.

But it is the content creaters who use the tools and basic rules of gameplay to make the actual part of the game a player plays.

The content creaters make the maps, sounds, story, movies, theme, feel etc...

No longer are the days where a programmer can make an entire game, you need an entire development team, each with their own skills. Their is no game made by one singe person, therefore no single person can be better than another.

[Smood]

Inferno has a point definately. The one point he fails to realize, is that the programmer CREATES the ability for all other members of a team to convey their skill to the project!

The simple fact of the matter is, without the programmer, there is no game. PERIOD.

[LOF_INFERNO]

yes but even if the programmer makes the tools, he still needs people to use them.

A programmer would not have the mapping skills required to make the maps needed for a good game, nor the skills for good sound, good models , good story etc...

[Smood]

Man power.

So who did you say was more crucial.... ;)

[Smood]

The key here is CRUCIAL! Who is the most NECESSARY COMPONENT OF A GAME. I feel it is extremely obvious but some disagree.


A: Wow thats a great model.
B: Ya I made it.
A: For what?
B: Ummm... I don't know.
C: I'm a programmer, I will make you a new toolset and you make models for my game ok?
B: COOL, I'm in.

[The_Stranger]

What about the game designer?

[ShirleyFT]

Originally posted by The_Stranger
What about the game designer?

He beat me to it. The game designer isn't always a programmer (maybe scripts). He/she writes the storyline(storyboards), designs levels, designs gameplay, characters, gives the art director ideas and generally handles most or all of the creative part of the game. Programmers are hired guns, are great at coding and usually have very little, if nothing, to do with creative decisions.

[Salyavin]

You don't need a single programmer to make a game. Games have been created for years, even centuries, with tiled boards, playing cards, dice, miniatures, you name it. Computers are just another way to represent a game.

You do need a good designer though, someone who has a good idea of what's fun and what isn't. Programmers are just craftsman, at least those who do nothing but write code. The good ones can design too.

Cheers,
Salyavin

[blito3]

you need a good programmer.....with game design and playing knowledge.
knowing when not to overload the program bloated code that lags the game is important.
2k3 has run into this problem.......instituting too many doodads at the cost of game flow and feel.

[Smood]

Originally posted by Salyavin
You don't need a single programmer to make a game. Games have been created for years, even centuries, with tiled boards, playing cards, dice, miniatures, you name it. Computers are just another way to represent a game.

You do need a good designer though, someone who has a good idea of what's fun and what isn't. Programmers are just craftsman, at least those who do nothing but write code. The good ones can design too.

Cheers,
Salyavin

Actually we are talking strictly of computer or console games. Thanks.

[Smood]

Originally posted by ShirleyFT
He beat me to it. The game designer isn't always a programmer (maybe scripts). He/she writes the storyline(storyboards), designs levels, designs gameplay, characters, gives the art director ideas and generally handles most or all of the creative part of the game. Programmers are hired guns, are great at coding and usually have very little, if nothing, to do with creative decisions.

This is not ALWAYS the case. Many times the programmers require the same creative vision and understanding so that programming is more efficient (prorammer knows exactly what a team needs).

The simple fact is. A GAME GOOD OR BAD, CANNOT EXIST WITHOUT THE PROGRAMMER.

[MortalPlague]

I wholeheartedly agree about game designers... my private little aspiration, actually. :D Game designers are the most crucial part of the game. Despite the fact that programmers are necessary for a game, I'll go with the assumption that since this game hypothetically exists, it has programmers, and I'd have to go with mappers for the most crucial. Not to promote myself, but mappers create the gameplay and flow of a game. They tell the story, they put people in situations and places, they establish the entire look and feel of the game. Modellers and skinners and programmers all contribute, but mappers tie it all together into a coherent adventure.

This is, of course, assuming that these people are all actually doing their job. A game with a bad programmer/modeller/skinner would still be lousy, despite a mapper's best efforts. Likewise for any of those positions.

[Smood]

To those who voted mapper, I fail to understand your reasoning. Mapping is a game development luxury and concept created by the programmer to assist in facilitating game content creation.

If it were not for the programmer giving a mapper the toolsets to do his job, he would not be able to do anything. The programmer actually makes the game, the mapper feeds it.

[Scourgem]

The investor.

[Smood]

Originally posted by MortalPlague
I wholeheartedly agree about game designers... my private little aspiration, actually. :D Game designers are the most crucial part of the game. Despite the fact that programmers are necessary for a game, I'll go with the assumption that since this game hypothetically exists, it has programmers, and I'd have to go with mappers for the most crucial. Not to promote myself, but mappers create the gameplay and flow of a game. They tell the story, they put people in situations and places, they establish the entire look and feel of the game. Modellers and skinners and programmers all contribute, but mappers tie it all together into a coherent adventure.

This is, of course, assuming that these people are all actually doing their job. A game with a bad programmer/modeller/skinner would still be lousy, despite a mapper's best efforts. Likewise for any of those positions.

I really disagree. Firstly we are not assuming the game exists! I'm trying to stress what you mentioned, a game cannot even exist without a programmer!

Secondly. The style flow etc.. of a game (may be made by a designer) but it is the programemr who actually creates the plan in the vision of the designer or himself depending on whether he has any say in the game iteself (most good games hire programmers with great creative sense, just so creation is smoother). The mapper although a worthy part of the team, merely manipulates style and flow in an individual basis. It is the programmer that sets the rules, can change them, and can basically do what ever he/she wants.

[Smood]

Originally posted by Scourgem
The investor.

roflol!

In a way he is right. But then again you have 'Garage games'. Just a couple programming dudes with visions.

[DeadLamb]

depends on the game style really.. More then a few games have been great, only to have a LAME programer doing the netcode (well to be fair, it's not like it's ez to write) and the game tanks.. Or the AI is so weak or cheats or so hard everone hates the game...

not sure they are all equal being one can track backwards as to what they will or will not over look in a game and while that migth make everyone with in a few points of each other rank wise.. it's still a rank..

poor model work can be hidden by a better skinner.. mapper is important but Halo is one big simple map and it made $$$$.. Heck CS has simple boxy maps and many still love it.

so I still think the programers are the most important. Even if they are just making tool sets being a better, quicker set helps everyone be better... in the end to make a really good game you still need a good team but I think there is a reason "lead programer" tends to get alot of props...

[The_Stranger]

Part of the difficulty is that "most important, and most crucial" haven't been defined. If the definition is the "one role without which the game could not be finished" then the answer is that everyone is equally important.

A complex 3D computer game could not be completed with out all of these roles. Saying that the game could not be complete without the programmer is true but also meaningless, since the same could be said of any of the roles mentioned, including the designer and the investor, as well as other people.

Even when it "Just a couple programming dudes with visions" it really means that a few people are taking on multiple roles, the programming dudes have to devise a game concept (game designer) make some kind of visuals for the game(modeler, skinner), and make levels. By putting up their own cash and time they become the investors, and by posting the game for download they are engaging in distribution. So they are really "everything dudes" even if they think of themselves as mainly programmers.

Another definition might be "who gets paid the most" but that is affected by a lot of factors like how difficult it would be to replace them with another person with the requisite skills. Mappers (for example) are more common than game programmers. Doesn't mean they are less important.

[ShirleyFT]

Crystal Caves - written in Fortran - text based game. They've gotten more complicated since then.

Back when PC games started getting popular, most games were built by individuals who did it all, design, programming, art, sound, music. Since then game companies employ larger teams to build games.

There really isn't a programmer now. There's a Lead Programmer, an Engine Programmer, an AI Programmer, a Netcode Programmer, a Tools Programmer, a Character Programmer, a Multimedia Programmer... Some programmers share responsibilities, but there are many hats to wear.

Yes, there are still independent games companies popping up everyday:) , but even these companies have more than one person.

Chicken or the egg? You need a programmer to get things rolling, preferably a Tools Programmer (a Mapper can't map unless you've built him an editor to use - unless he can program in the raw code which a programmer can do).

Also, many game designers also do Mapping.

[faet]

Originally posted by Smood
To those who voted mapper, I fail to understand your reasoning. Mapping is a game development luxury and concept created by the programmer to assist in facilitating game content creation.

If it were not for the programmer giving a mapper the toolsets to do his job, he would not be able to do anything. The programmer actually makes the game, the mapper feeds it.

i voted for all, tho i mostly think mapper and progger, w/out progger there would be no mapper. but w/out a mapper, there would be no 'eye candy' for ppl to wanna play the game... how would u like to play ut, and the only maps u were playing where, thorns, and boxfulloflava... wouldnt be that fun would it.

[Angel_Mapper]

Originally posted by Smood
To those who voted mapper, I fail to understand your reasoning. Mapping is a game development luxury and concept created by the programmer to assist in facilitating game content creation. They're all equally important, I don't know why you have such a hard-on for programmers. Without mappers/modellers/artists etc, you'd have a bunch of people staring at thousands of lines of code. Yay.

[ShirleyFT]

Here are some other peeps ideas on the subject. Check it:

http://www.sloperama.com/advice.html

http://www.blitzcoder.com/cgi-bin/articles/show_article.pl?f=gamekrylar09182001.html

http://www.digitalgamedeveloper.com/Htm/GameTalk/gdsucks.htm

http://www.makegames.com/intro.html

http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article866.asp

[MortalPlague]

I voted for all, because they are all important.

Think on this, though; how many games are totally ruined by bad programming, modelling, or skinning? How many games are totally ruined by bad mapping?