CTF-EveningThrush

[HortonsWho]

A small map with tight corners. Lots to duck behind, several lifts...

One of the larger red lifts is being dodgy, still addressing that. Some minor bot stupidity.

My main concern is performance on average rigs. There are a couple of high-poly spots.

download (http://www.unrealplayground.com/download.php?mapid=2887)

[HortonsWho]

Can somebody also tell me what I am doing wrong with triggered sounds? There are triggers over the four places where the grate shows through the floor but I can't get them to sound.

[Sinnical]

map will play fast, which is ok. scaling is cool, achitecture is more graceful than abbey too. as the map is very similar throughout id say more team designation would be a great help.

as for sounds i took a look, and im pretty sure the reason is, well, cuz the triggers and events are really high above the grate:)
if you put them about the same level above the grate as a pathnode would be u should be all set. i got em working when i moved the stuff down so all ur settings for them should be correct

[HortonsWho]

LOL! I moved them and didn't notice they changed at the vertical. DOH!


I was pretty bleary-eyed. Thanks!


Team colors--- I've colored the top floor and added two signs indicating which base is which from the center corridor.

[fragnbrag]

Just DL'd - I'll look at this tonight - horton, you're starting to make me drool over your works - from the screenies looks like it could be a wee bit darker ;) oh, and where's bacquerel? you're still gonna release that map, arn't you - please say yes ?????
cheers

[SoBeiT]

Since its such a quick map to travel thru, maybe a third level or a partial third level?

If it had boots the FC could jump up to the top on the beams/rafters and walk the sides, so maybe you'd not want the third level? Don't know.

Played fast and lightening was good.


I'll try the next version to know what your talking about when you say "sounds".

Nice mapping Horton :)

[HortonsWho]

teh b00ts are there... just gotta look hard. ;)

I don't think I want it much larger... my last maps have been a little too big. What does everybody else think?

The sounds are just a metallic creak when you step on the grates in the floor. Just simple ear-candy.

Regarding Becquerel-- yeah-- just letting it digest to get some better online feedback. Should be released soon.

As Slain said, I'm getting better at the realism, just need to work on the gameplay. I struggle trying to design truly great z-axis/smooth flow maps. Getting my brain to think fully in three dimensions/axes is tough. Take this map--- The z-axis (unless you boot/hammer) is all lifts on walls and is totally symmetrical. Nothing wrong with this approach but lots of dull maps are built this way.

Now take Slain's latest, "CTF-Sweatshop." Very simple design but damn did I have great fun on that one this weekend. When I discovered that you can hammerjump with the boots and get all the way up to the U-Damage. Suhweet!!! More enjoyable for me than anything I've made so far. I suppose "CTF-Strangled" comes closest of all mine to that more fully integrated flow/z-axis but it's not totally right either.

So this one was to force me to get away from many of my design mistakes, make something small that doesn't get out of hand and still is good to look at (I get easily bored with dull-looking maps).

I chose the Chico textures because they force an architectural style on you (and to learn how to use the textures as a template in the 2D editor - very cool feature). Unfortunately, once I latched onto an idea, I wasn't patient enough to integrate multiple levels so that it flowed better.

I do like the end result. I've finally managed to get bots to take more than one route (I'm just learning pathing) and they play pretty OK for the most part. I need to spend a week with Switch to figure out how he did so well on CTf-FtKearney. The bot work in that map is superb.

In the end I'll go back to what I said when I started mapping... I juts wanted us to have more new maps to play on our servers here. I'm glad you all have enjoyed some of them. I'm more excited that Scourgem, Slain, Bewilderbeest and others are now back to mapping for UT!

And ummm... more feedback please! :p

Thanks

[HortonsWho]

Sheesh! That Horton is a windbag....

[Blackshado]

Originally posted by HortonsWho
Sheesh! That Horton is a windbag....

Yeah, I hate people who always write long posts.

:p

<--- master of the 10 pg dissertation post

[Sinnical]

cool on teh fixes. and small is ok by me.

[HortonsWho]

Any other thoughts or is this good to go?

[Blackshado]

Fix the arch on the big side lifts!!!! :p

You end up bonking your head on lift jumps. Maybe raising the arch or something to give more room. It would be nice to be able to jump all the way up top from all the lifts.

And I'm not 100% sure about this, but maybe opening up the top a bit more. With all those walls, you might get stuck in a dead end, or get caught on a window trying to jump down. Maybe a couple less walls or larger windows?

Maybe another way to cross over from one side to the other, like a path through the wall, like a rat hole or something that allows you to cross from perch to perch in one or two spots. (well, ya know, the top of the walls there). Right now, it'll be a crazy bottleneck in the middle for each flag run. Maybe a high altitude, high risk route will tempt a FC here and there, and change the flow up a bit.

[BeWilderBeest]

I agree with Shado... could be a bit more free-flowing. But hey, it's still fun to play, and the visuals are nice... haven't noticed anything to be fixed, but then I haven't played the map that much yet.
This map really suits my style of play... up close and personal... Another nice map to add to the portfolio :)

And as for the name: EveningThrush?

Sounds like what a prostitute gets at night. :evil:

[Freakish]

Poke some holes in the central walls between the central facing lifts so I can lift jump across (from red base to blue base)... :D

You could speed up the lifts by the flags if you want to make it easier to lift jump to the middle - right now the timing has to be pretty good to make it.

You've improved colors and team designation, right? As it is the color differences are way subtle and the whole map just feels very white without variance.

Consider making it possible to get into the central rafters from the roof beams like shado said - I'd like that; it would mix things up.

The underarch (for the thin arches at least)textures look stretched ever so slightly..


Overall: should be spammy and fun. Something is bugging me about it though..I think it's that it feels cramped. But I'll have to see after playing against people..

[HortonsWho]

http://www.unrealplayground.com/download.php?mapid=2902

New upper route-

Can a mapper please take a look and figure out what's going on with the lifts in the red base ( and now one in blue)?

They are variously black, turn black when moving, etc. I've rebuilt, replaced, moved to no avail.

[Freakish]

I'm sure you'll clean up looks later...

for now though - central top area (where you cross sides taking the upper route) - the beams are different heights.

Players can also get out of the upper route windows and hide outside in the nothingness.



the route is a good addition though. yay lift jumps!

[HortonsWho]

Yup-- The cap on that wall got moved. Fixed. And I've blocked the windows and improved lighting up there. Mostly just interested in fixing the lifts with this version. They've got me stymied.

Bots playing OK? This was the first map where I really tried with the bots and used alt-paths. They'll use the lifts to return across the upper route.

[fragnbrag]

Originally posted by HortonsWho
http://www.unrealplayground.com/download.php?mapid=2902

New upper route-

Can a mapper please take a look and figure out what's going on with the lifts in the red base ( and now one in blue)?

They are variously black, turn black when moving, etc. I've rebuilt, replaced, moved to no avail.


hi horton, first off very nice map - nice mood - would be very tough 5 vs 5 ;) secondly, you got some problems :( nothing too major - movers - a number of them are causing coplaner bsp holes where they contact the walls - this *might* be the cause of the dead mover surface texture - you need to redo them all and either make them dimensionally smaller (by ex. 2 or 4 units all around, or make the wall alcoves larger - your choice. you should fix all of these)

see the pix please ...

[fragnbrag]

i moved it, rebuilt and tada...

[fragnbrag]

you'll notice the surface at the back of the lift is still a bsp hole - thats because i just moved the lift up and over (ie did not resize it)

btw - while i was in there - i added a few more zones to show you the max (yup i'm an anal-retentive dood :P occlusion value at runtime (stat global) seemed to dropped a wee tad --- stuff like that you need a weak box to see better improvements for such practices

cheers

[fragnbrag]

ermmm notes the zones in middle and outside as shown ---

no point in lighting surfaces you're not currently looking at, right?

cheers

[HortonsWho]

Thanks frag-- I'll be redoing the movers--- is it safe to rescale them/vertex edit or should they be built from scratch?

Yes-- more zoning-- I was waiting for the routes to be finished.

Gracias!

[fragnbrag]

Originally posted by HortonsWho
Thanks frag-- I'll be redoing the movers--- is it safe to rescale them/vertex edit or should they be built from scratch?

Yes-- more zoning-- I was waiting for the routes to be finished.

Gracias!


zones - well, i was just trying to show you something there - the way it was had not (yet) isolated the (entire) blue and red base (the top areas were common still) don't get me wrong... zoning this design probably won't be as beneficial to FR as poly-merging given the # surfaces the camera is always seeing - zoning as much as is practical is usually the goal - some designs can't really be zoned at all (open ones) but zoning wherever you can in (ie sealing hallways and perhaps rooms that peeps will frequent "un-stresses the engine" during runtime and raising average FRs (which is usually a good thing :) your map this time is not really huge but it is very open in that camera sees "thru" 2 zones line of sight" for the most part which negates the benefits of zoning, really, but since it's small not really a big deal...
(sorry for being such a wind-bag :)

as to the movers, if it were me i'd rebuild them (movers don't like to be edited once they're brushes- best to edit the "source", then re-intersect and replace them (the source is in a builder room somewhere, right?

hope this helps
cheers

[Salyavin]

Originally posted by HortonsWho
Bots playing OK? This was the first map where I really tried with the bots and used alt-paths. They'll use the lifts to return across the upper route. Tamara (!) almost kicked my butt in a 1v1 w/relics. Final score was 5-4. The bots know how to run the flag both top and bottom and get the amp, keg, and weapons. I never saw her with the shield belt though (but that may be because I was hogging them).

The bot did get stuck on the lift to the right of the flag twice and just rode it up and down shooting at me. I was running around the top area with the flag. She only got loose after I moved away.

Love the lift jumping.

Cheers,
Salyavin

[IHopeToGod]

Haven't downloaded it yet but if you are getting black movers you might want to mess with the lighting properties field under the Mover property - in particular "bdynamicLightMover" . Works sometimes ;)

[HortonsWho]

Originally posted by IHopeToGod
if you are getting black movers you might want to mess with the lighting properties field under the Mover property - in particular "bdynamicLightMover" . Works sometimes ;)

Been there-- it's a BSP problem-- need to rebuild/replace.

[King Mango]

Originally posted by HortonsWho:
Can somebody also tell me what I am doing wrong with triggered sounds? There are triggers over the four places where the grate shows through the floor but I can't get them to sound.
Hort, I am gonna chime in with an idea that I haven't had a chance to test yet, but how about a zone with x and y dimensions mathing the grates, then change the sound of steps to something appropriately squeaky? Don't even know if it can be done. But I was planning a new map, and had the idea to try that. If I get around to trying it in the near future, I'll let you know if it works.